guns guns guns

[mishu1984]

uleysses. true and not true
currently, with my picasso, i didnt bother using a "real" dyneema setup. just unscrew cap, insert dyneema, screew cap. it makes replacing them easier.
HOWEVER, (please excuse the caps) i did use "real" dyneema wishbones with my cressi 110. i had the same problem. yet, in my defence, i never "properly" filled my notches. actually, if anything, i think i made them sharper

i will end up switching out my wishbones entirely, i just need to get some proper materials as i want to preserve my wood finish

[mishu1984]

ok. time for a little update.
i changed out my shafts, now im using omer sharktabs and dyneema wishbones in all my guns.
with the picaso 110, i changed the rubbers as well. im hoping that my current setup will finally give me the kind of penetration i want. now the problem that im having is that i cant load 18's.
currently im hitting the gym so that i hopefully can load my gun by this weekend, but realistically thats not going to happen.
so, does any1 have any suggestion how i can load it short of asking my buddy to load it for me, which i dont want to do, cuz, well... its not very manly :P

[kjflyfish]

Mishu, are you hip loading? If so, try chest loading - you can generate a lot more power that way. Properly sized 18s should be a snap.

[mishu1984]

both. i usually load to the first tab using my hip and the second with my chest. this is with the 16's. 18's i cant to either

[kjflyfish]

Twin 16s is plenty of power for a euro. I wouldn't even bother with 18s if you're running doubles.

On my 85cm woody, I use two 14s @ 3.5:1 stretch and it's got pinpoint accuracy and all the grunt I could ever need.

[Mr. X]

When I switched the band on my RA90 from 16mm to 20mm, the loading experience became a painful, bruising experience. The solution for me was to get an old flip-flop sole (and not one of those thin cheap ones) and insert that on a tape band under my wetsuit's loading pad. It made a huge difference. Also, the rubbers ease up a bit once you've fired them a few times. Focus your strength (like karate or weightlifting) & load carefully but quickly.

Next time, I'm going back to 16mm - the RA 16mm rubber is plenty powerful enough for my needs; power is sometimes overrated IMHO. I recently got an Omer 75 gun that comes with 18mm rubbers. I find the gun's loading butt helps as you don't need to pull the rubbers as close into your chest to notch the wishbone. Although I find the screw-in, bladed wishbone an unnecessary, dangerous & undesirable distraction (it holds water too), it probably further reduces the distance you need to pull the rubbers back (easier loading but less power). I initially thought the Omer rubbers softer but on further use, I think they are comparable to the RA bands -- it's just a little easier because I have them fitted to a shorter gun, & the reasons just stated.

BTW I assume you fitted 18mm bands that are longer than your previous bands (presumably 16mm)? If using bulk rubber, use the Rabitech or RA rubber charts as a sizing guide and go for the softer settings, plus a bit extra - you can always shorten it further later. You might also consider switching to 2x16mm bands or 2x14mm bands if your muzzle with accept 2 bands, or back to a single 16mm band (& maybe try a slimmer spear?). BTW I bet a lot of people that fit more powerful bands to their guns find the experience less pleasant/satisfying than expected & so switch to another gun, sell the old one (quite a lot of the guns I've seen on eBay have "upgraded" bands) or give up spearing.

[kjflyfish]

In my opinion, strength has little to do with loading ability and only really comes into play with the big 20/21 mm bands (I bought some 21s and they are stiff!).

One important consideration is that if you have to lengthen the bands in order to use 18s or 20s, you are loosing band stretch. That equates to less travel of the band and less overall performance. It's much better to use a smaller diameter band(s) stretched to a greater percentage. Your shots will be smoother and probably more accurate too, all with the same range and penetration.

You can see a lot of bluewater guys using 14mm bands on their wood cannons for this very reason.

[mishu1984]

thanks for the input.
on the picasso im using twin omer 18's. overkill i know, but me and a grouper have a score to settle, and right now all i can imagine is my shaft going in in between its eyes and out its but-hole.

with my 100, i have twin 16's. these i can load no problem.

the reason why im using 18's on my 110 is that lately we've hit some wrecks that hold some pretty big fish and i've had my shafts bounce off gill-plates repeatedly hopefully this will be resolved with my new shafts and rubbers.
all my shooting lines are new as well, so the crimps shouldnt fail and the line shouldnt cut. im using Riffe 400# test black mono. both guns have a reel with approx 100ft of some chord i cant remember at the moment. also, i finally replace my suunto D3 battery, sharpened all my knifes, polished all my shafts, and should any of my shark-fin shafts bend, i have also polished the notches on my regular shafts so that they dont eat away at my new wishbones. all thats missing is the fish

[mishu1984]

YouTube - Meshal spearfishing gear

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[miles]

Hiya

Mishu, 2x18mm's is too much power. Euro's are normally rated to only use 2x16mm's. It's all well saying you want to shoot the fish in the head and have the spear exit by the tail, but have you considered what'll happen if you miss? Or there is a rock under or behind the fish? If you're hunting grouper type fish, you'll be spearing in a rocky environment and inside caves. Chances are good that you'll bend your spear or snap the tip off, with all that power. Remember, the flopper is attached to the spear by a hole, which'll offer a weakpoint when you miss and shoot a rock. The spear will most likely break there!!

Loading is more technique, than strength. Like all the others have said above!! My wife can load her 110 gun with a single 20mm band quite easily. She also battled at first to load her 75cm gun with a soft 16mm. Practice makes perfect!!

A easy way to cheat: use you 20mm band that came with the gun. Simply make the wish-bone very long!! Your gun will not be as powerfull, but at least you'd be able to load it easily. As you get better, simply shorted the wish-bone!! Some more tips: use gloves, it makes a big difference and load the gun in the water. Dry loading (loading the gun on land) is very difficult and DANGEROUS!!

Not sure what the current craze for shark-finned spears is all about

Mr.X, the idea behind shark-fin's is quite simple. It offers superior strength, as the notch's are considered weak-points on a spear. Not really an issue when targetting fish under 20kg's, but on bigger fish, it certainly is an issue worth looking at. You'll notice on some euro/railguns spear's, their is a hole at the rear of the spear as well as a hole at the FRONT of the notch's. If you're hunting big fish, it'd then be best to use the front hole on the spear to attach your shooting line.
On wooden guns, it simply makes loading the gun so much easier, as the spear generally sits deep inside its rail. On my tuna guns, the hole for the shooting line is actually drilled THROUGH the shark-fin and not the spear.

Regards
miles

ps. Mishu, post some pic's of those BIG groupers!!

[Marwan]

mishu if this setup is driven by big groupers, im not sure its the best solution,...ive taken very big grouer (20kg+) with a single 18mm and 6.75 spear...the key for the big ones is to not hit the head, it wont go through...and with twin 18s you loose a lot of accuracy to recoil...
imagin looking at the fish from the topand that you are coming from behind (so that you make your way from tail to head), hit it infront of the first spike on the dorsal fin in the direction of the mouth....you ultimately hit the brain and it dies instantly...or behind the gill plte from below and spear exits from top of the head......now the real challmge there is to get into a position to allow these shots
good luck

[mishu1984]

miles, i know twin 18's is a LOT of power. but there are also some large trevally in a wreck im going to this thursday. so hopefully ill be able to post a video and some pics here. if my accuracy is compromised ill unscrew one of my 18's and keep it to a single 18 setup. according to my dive buddy, the forecast is flat seas, sunny skies, and hopefully 30 ft viz. the trevallies will see it coming, but just like in the movie, you cant get away from the Flash (yes i renamed the gun from its original Jenny)

my next project is to finish refurbishing my ab biller. water has seeped in the butt and i will probably remove it or make my own water plug. its a 42'' stainless. im aiming to put triple or quad 14's on it and use it as my backup large grouper gun. given the shaft is threaded, im thinking of switching to a trident. i know it will be way overpowered, but accuracy isnt my main concern with the biller as i could always miss the broad side of a barn with it.

also, i always use gloves when in the water.

im trying to find the optimal ratio of power to accuracy with the 110. im thinking of getting a 22 rubber (if it exists)...

also, has any1 tried using a mixed setup. say a 16 and a 18 rubber? it would be interesting.

[Blenny]

What a lot of people forget to take into consideration is the potential loss of power of a band over time taken between loading and firing. A 14mm band stretched to near its limit suffers a greater loss than say an 18mm band which could generate similar power but lose less of it. If you believe that you'll be seeing a lot of fish and taking a good few you probably are best served by a number of thinner bands. However if you only anticipate firing occasionally a thicker band not stretched to its limit is best.

[Mr. X]

I was thinking what Marwan just said. Maybe the best/simplest thing would be to not shoot the fish in the gill plate, aim a little further back. (I've lost 2 good size fish by British standards when the spear bounced off their gill plates -- these fish would be quite small by your standards). Alternatively, perhaps a slimmer, sharper spear would offer better penetration (e.g. I see RA now offer two variants of their ground tri-cut tip designs).

Originally Posted by mishu1984

...im trying to find the optimal ratio of power to accuracy with the 110. im thinking of getting a 22 rubber (if it exists)...

If you can't load your 18mm bands, why would you even consider 22mm bands? Are you planning to get one of those medieval wind-up crossbow loaders?

Miles, great post - packed full of useful info. as usual. I was wondering about that second hole in the spear -- makes sense, the notches (& holes) are the weak spots. Love the idea about the longer wishbones -- I use factory RA wishbones which are quite short, maybe I should look into making up some slightly longer ones.

[mishu1984]

lol. i went out today. the post is in the UAE section of africa and middle east.
i was able to load the 18's. it was hard, no doubt, but with a little alteration with my technique i got them in. although loading to the rear tab was nothing short of a b!tch

the 22's would be after working out in the gym for a while.