How deep do you hunt?

[efattah]

I know that cuban Alejandro Ravelo caught a grouper at 53m. However, most of the stories I've heard for spearing fish over 47-48m were done using small extra weights on the descent, as is often done by the best spearos at the world championships, a type of 'mini-variable-ballast' dive.

Was Umberto's 64m fish caught with mono or bifins? Constant weight? That definitely takes the cake! Funny, his first constant weight record was 65m, and now he spears fish at that depth.

I assume these depths are the depths recorded by the dive computer? Or, is it the depth of the fish itself? For example, one could shoot a fish that is 5-6m deeper than the diver.

[Chefkoch]

The greek guy i know really had 49m on his suunto stinger. He didn't mention using extra-weights either. He is totally into cw, being very fast on his dives, and he has low buoyancy. without a suit, he would be negative in a 5m pool, and i would always pop up
From what he told me he only needs a 1kg weight on an omer 3mm opencell-suit in greek waters.
damn, the bugger left munich to work a few years in portugal, and his current job is down in australia

[Fondueset]

I haven't been spearing much - the fish I want are either not big enough - or not around in numbers yet this year - but most pictures are done Aspetto. I'm mostly 8-10 meters - sometimes 12. I haven't timed myself but recently have taken a few movies on 8-10 meter dives these run about a minute - all on the bottom. Generally I get down there - wait for something to show up or get close enough - then start the movie - stop it when the fish leave or I need to go up. Because I frequently dive alone I pretty much surface shortly after I start to feel uncomfortable. The biggest help with my dives lately has been just relaxing on the surface - completely letting go - even forgetting about breathing. My interest has been more in extending the comfort range than applying will to the urge.

My most frequent spot requires that I swim out quite a ways to get much past 10 meters - recreational boating traffic is prohibitive for that during the spring/summer/fall. Last winter I may have approached 20 meters - it was so freakishly clear I kept underestimating the depth.

[Marwan]

Ok guys, tried some more practice this last weekend, to increase my bottom time, i believe i was a bit under weighed, i added 1 kg and it was perfect, i was positively buoyant the last 6 meters, so i guess i did something right, also i calculated my surface time to be at least a minute before i go again, i managed to do an aspetto at 11m for about 15-20 seconds, which was VERYY cool, i wasnt even interested in the fish

[portinfer]

Marwan what was your total dive time ? If you are only spending a minute on the surface I think that may be too short... My dive times for 11m (aspetto) are about 1:30 (total dive time) and I spend at least 3 minutes on the surface....

[Marwan]

My total dive time was exactly 1:23, after that dive i spent a good 2 or 3 minutes at the surface, there was good fish action though , hey ed i ordered a pair of gara 3000 LD's i noticed you purchased a pair a while back, are they good, I tried the regular 3000's last weekend, they didnt bother me much, but then again i didnt get to use them except for 10 minutes, i just noticed that they usually broke the surface,
cheers

[Will]

Was Umberto's 64m fish caught with mono or bifins? Constant weight? That definitely takes the cake! Funny, his first constant weight record was 65m, and now he spears fish at that depth.

Bifins, and most likely Cressi Gara 3000's (plastic). In the Red Sea recently he pulled off 83m with the same fins. As far as I know Umberto has never fished in variable weight or with a monofin. The benefit with shooting a grouper at that depth is that it has probably never encountered a spearfisher before (they stay in the same zone most their lives) and will therefore allow you to come closer.

[Mr. X]

Yet another interesting thread!

Originally Posted by spaghetti

Good post, Old Man: going deep is not necessary to spear good fish, and may be even dangerous....I can have fun as well in a few meters of water.
...
PS: I've had a "vision" of you, Foxfish, Mr X and me sitting by the fireplace, while outside it's raining, with you telling us about your records. Who knows? I've never been in England, maybe some day...;-)

That does sound good Spaghetti -- a long weekend in Guernsey perhaps? I have been toying with the idea lately. (You are welcome to visit here too -- although I am not so close to the sea. Did I mention we have 6X?).

Originally Posted by Old Man Dave

... Most of that time I've never needed to dive deeper than 10 metres and probably couldn't have. Most of my fishing was done in less than 20 foot (6M) and quite a lot in less than 1 metre. Despite this I have been a local champion, caught thousands of fish and held endless records...

I love OMD's honesty & directness! I rarely dive deep, although lately I found myself a couple of times taking longer to ascend than in the past (I now have my weight belt weighted just as I want it). Thinking about it now (estimating by multiples of my height + fins), it seemed like maybe 20 feet (6m) on descent and it sometimes seemed like maybe 30-36 feet (10-13m-ish) on ascent! Can't say which is most accurate. I dislike gadgets but AlmostAFish suggested getting a dive computer (Sunnto D3?) -- maybe I am now at the point where than might be worthwhile? That was looking for flatties. I haven't seen any fish deep though. Almost all of the fish (and crab) I have seen are in shallow water upto maybe 10 - 15 feet (0.3-5m) though.

I admire those who go deep -- but feel no need to myself.

Originally Posted by foxfish

...The main quarry that requires the most strenuous diving routine are flatfish. Unfortunately flatfish are no longer common in our seas.
...
Spaghetti I also have similar visions but I see us four sitting alongside my outdoor open fire in the evening sun awaiting the smoker to return our catch of the day.

Sounds good to me. May be I should bring the family & car (spare room for 2!) for a week.

Perhaps I should forget about flat fish for while though. I notice that I am staying down longer now (never pushing it though). Depth means danger to me ... and I can see now how easy it might be to inadvertantly go deeper & longer than you expect or want to.

Originally Posted by panosb

...I prefer going fishing at dusk. around 18:00-21:00 in the summer are great hrs for spearing almost all species here in greece. I ve spent almost all my diving years( 20 yrs) betweem 1-10m of depth due to medical problems, although as i mentioned in previous posts now i can safely dive at 25m(with 15 secs bottom time). The key for spearfishing for me is to be silent and have great bottom times....

Sounds like a good philosophy. I was surprised how few fish I saw at dawn last week -- for some reason I thought dawn & dusk would be good (I did see a small bass though).

Originally Posted by spaghetti

...We have a saying here: "Spearos are not killed by boats. Spearos are killed by goupers"....

Interesting. Looking round boulders last week, I was careful not to get into caves or under shelves ... I can see how you could get stuck somewhere, caught up in the efforts & excitement to get the fish.

Originally Posted by dave

In the UK, agachon has always been the term, it is only through Deeper Blue that I became aware of aspetto as another name.

I've been using Italian terminology rather than French (& will probably stick with it), picked up mainly from DeeperBlue. I have always had trouble with French (perhaps because I learnt German at school ...& come from a former Roman occupied Saxon area, Wessex).

Originally Posted by spaghetti

These are the italian terms for the 5 techniques:
Aspetto= Waiting (ambush the fish from a static position)
Agguato = Ambush (with dynamic action seizing the fish around)
Tana = Cave/hole (seizing fish investigating in the rocks)
Caduta= Falling down (localize fish from above, dive straight down and shoot while descending)
Razzolo= Stratching about (a mix of all the previous techniques performed in shallow waters)

Maybe I can use those, especially Razzolo!

Originally Posted by Spaniard

I think in French, Agguato is something like peche a L'Indien (stalking like Native Americans ??)

I've seen Guernsey spearos, esp. Old Man Dave, write about using Indian technique. I assumed it means stalking (as in deer stalking). That is probably the technique I have used most so far - although I am working on some shallow, short aspettos . (I think somebody, perhaps Spearo Dave, mentioned in an earlier thread that the French agachon roughly means ambush -- perhaps either/both Daves could help clarify that?).

Originally Posted by Oldsarge

Jay Riffe said to me at a Neptunes' meeting "There are plenty of fish in the top 20' of the ocean. There's no need to go deeper." I like that philosophy, but then, I'm one of the more senior old farts on this board . . . and Jay is older than me!

Sounds good to me!

Originally Posted by portinfer

... If you are only spending a minute on the surface I think that may be too short... My dive times for 11m (aspetto) are about 1:30 (total dive time) and I spend at least 3 minutes on the surface....

Having read some of Portinfers earlier posts, I generally force myself to take longer rests than I am naturally inclined to take (I often want to dive again after one or two breaths).

Originally Posted by Fondueset

... Because I frequently dive alone I pretty much surface shortly after I start to feel uncomfortable. The biggest help with my dives lately has been just relaxing on the surface - completely letting go - even forgetting about breathing. My interest has been more in extending the comfort range than applying will to the urge. ....
Last winter I may have approached 20 meters - it was so freakishly clear I kept underestimating the depth.

Consciously relaxing between dives seems helpful -- something I am working on currently. Yes, estimating depth can be surprisingly tricky.

[Sorry for the long post, I was just tipped off about his great thread]

[Almostafish]

D3's are great, not only do you know your depth ( Estimation is all but impossible ) you know your dive time and therefore know how long your surface time should be. Last thing you need is to get bent...

Max spearfishing depth for me is 30m but in UK its cold, dark and you end up looking up at the fish, bloody big lobsters though. Most of my catches are 1-15m.

[Dobs]

Originally Posted by portinfer

My dive times for 11m (aspetto) are about 1:30 (total dive time) and I spend at least 3 minutes on the surface....

When I dive relatively deep 12-15 metres I try to spend longer times on the surface resting and breathing up. Aproximately twice the time of the dive. If I plan to spend 1:30 on the bottom then I spend at least 3 minutes on the surface.

[Almostafish]

Dobs try to do AT LEAST 3 times your dive on the surface. You need to clean your blood of all the toxins/waste products that you build up with apnea and normaly I would recommend to to 10min surface time after each dive over 10m but for spearo it just does not work. Always take your snorkel out of your mouth as you decend and never dive alone. Enjoy

[fearthespear]

Spearing fish at 65m, thats phenomenal! I shat myself at 12 metres, seems like miles down!

Ah well, can only improve if I just stay away from that damn bakery!!

Keep catching

[Mullins]

I'm a fairly conservative spearo when it comes to depths/times but the surface intervals mentioned above seem overly conservative to me. When doing 2 min dives to 20m my surface intervals are between 2 and 3 mins. Obviously it's better to err on the side of caution, but that routine is deliberately cautious. I doubt you'd gain anything from waiting on the surface for more than twice the length of your dive.

This is reflected in the pool - 4 minutes is plenty of time to recover between 100m dynamics, which are more stressful than a 2min/20m dive. Adding time on top of that does not increase performance a great deal. For me at least. Maybe others are wildly different, but I wouldn't imagine so...

[Almostafish]

But do you do 100m Dynamics every two min for 5 hours? I understand what you are saying but there is an entire chemical force at work every time you start with apnea.

Bryn Spencer
AIDA Instructor.

[Mullins]

Nope, although I can do them at 4 min intervals for a couple of hours. Agreed, spearfishing is different from training in a pool. My point was just that even relatively strenuous swims don't take all that long to recover from. More relaxed spearfishing dives, where you're spending a fair bit of time lying on the bottom, require less recovery time. They should be largely aerobic and shouldn't generate huge amounts of waste products except for C02.

If you're pushing yourself hard and accumulating lactic acid on your dives - which you probably shouldn't be doing anyway unless you have an active spotter - then yeah, the "spend at least twice your dive time on the surface" rule might apply. But if you're pulling depths/times you are comfortable with then 1.5 - 2.0 times your dive time should be a more than adequate surface interval. To be honest I think that people who are encouraged to do extra-long breathups tend to spend all that time breathing too fast and blow off too much C02. 10 min interval between dives over 10m sounds, to be honest, way over the top. Even for a deep freedive I spend a max of about 5-6 mins breathing up after my second negative...

This is not coming from an AIDA instructor such as yourself , just a spearo/freediver who does a fair bit of training