Sea Angling for Spearos

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by ADM

...Bass Fishing on Shore and sea is a good one to read for info on the bass whether fishing for or spearing or just interest.

Thanks for the recommendation ADM. Found it: Bass Fishing: On Shore and Sea: Books: John...

Coincidently, I was given a box of fishing books today consisting mainly of the huge, complete 6 volume set "The Art of Fishing" (not sure if I'll have room to keep this long term - so if anybody is interested, let me know). One of them is by the same chap that wrote the book you recommend, "The Sea Angler's Guide to Britain and Ireland' - by John Darling. I was surprised, horrified and saddened to discover from the book that some of my favourite areas, Lulworth Cove & Weymouth Bay, are used to discharge radioactive waste into the sea [see Dorset 2007 thread for a fuller account].

I haven't finished looking through the other books but they include:

"Let's start Shore Fishing" by Richard... - a very slim, only 24 pages, half the size of the Len Jones booklet! Probably aimed at kids, very brief, simple with simple but attractive watercolour illustrations. If you needed to learn a few basics quickly or have a short attention span, this might be the book for you. I'll probably hang onto this one.

"The Daily Express Guide to Fishing. Coarse,... Looks like a lot of useful information & clear line drawings, albeit crammed into a small, cheap paperback format, the font is quite small but surprisingly clear enough for me to read even by these lousy low energy lights (grizzel, grizzel).

Others:
The Flytiers Companion by Mike Dawes Great book for flytiers I would think, a page per fly in many cases, with a colour image of each followed by detailed tying instructions. (Flyflicker? Anyone?)

Trout from Still Waters by Peter Lapsey
The Hamlyn Basic guide to Angling
Observers Fly Fishing by Peter Wheat
Again, I can't keep all of these, so if any catch your interest let me know. The previous owner wants them used.

BTW I also have "The Concise Encyclopedia of Popular Freshwater... (all colour photos) - nice book if you are into this (I'm not).[Foxfish/Niaid perhaps?].

[foxfish]

Thanks for the offer Mr x but I have my own library .
Anything by J Darling is well worth reading & for some reason P Wheat sticks in my mind - must of read it ?

[Mr. X]

I've been flicking through my new "fishing library" over the holiday. The 6 volume set has a lot of non-relevant stuff (e.g. coarse & fly fishing - although there was a piece on a guy catching a salmon on a Toby near where I work! That was a surprise) & is somewhat repetitive but I found a couple of areas that came up several times and really caught my interest:

1. is the "killer rig" which is somewhat like my latest kayak trolling rig. Basically the line has 2 or 3 snoods with artificial eels attached and a weight, spinner or heavy lure at the end. I think it is really intended for jigging over wrecks but it seems like a natural next step for my kayak rig (which is currently 2 eddystone eels of different sizes).

2. Flounder spoons. I have a shop bought one which is really to light for shore use. The articles on this suggest that bigger spoons are better -- 2"x3" or bigger (i.e. table spoon or ladle size) as the idea is that the flatties think they are stealing food from smaller flatties (the spoon). I think I might make some & give it a try combined with the flatty rigs discussed above. They also suggest keeping the hook quite close behind, less that 4cm/1.5" below the end of the spoon.

[ADM]

The "killer" rig can work with a rapala type lure on the end and a single feather up the line, seen it work very well before.

I went for a quick fish tonight and landed 7 dogfish and a chancre... Chap next to me had a Cod, rare as hens teeth over here... All in the bait I reckon, will have to go get me some of what he had and try again I reckon!!

[Mr. X]

I visited the local charity stop today to get some big spoons to make flounder spoons. I asked for the oldest, roughest table spoons & server spoons (the sets on display looked too good to cut up). They found a big box in a cupboard but could not get it out -- so they "lucky dipped" 4 dessert spoons for me. 50p for 4 - good deal.

When I came to cut the spoons, I was saddened to see all 4 were made in England, as most stores now sell Chinese made cutlery. One was hall marked silver - I couldn't bring myself to cut that up. The others, Stainless steel made in Sheffield, England, are now super flounder spoons [see pics below]. The handles will probably be made into a flasher or slim jim lures (although I broke 2 metal drill bits trying to drill the handles). The spoons drilled more easily but sawing & drilling stainless steel is noticeably harder than mild steel.

I weighted each spoon with one or two lead weights, as they will be cast from a beach rather than trolled from a boat. It took some tuning to get the weight right (the spoons are quite heavy, so I reckon an ounce/28g of lead or less is the about right for my 10-60g rated spinning rod), and to get the hooks in close enough; the articles I read suggested less than 4cm/1.5" from the end of the blade.

The beads, mainly luminous, are new from Veals (or was it Jim's?). The hooks are new from Chesil angling store (size 2 Kamasan Aberdeens - recommended by the owner for flatties inc. plaice). The weights are: from a 50p bag of leads that my local angling store salvaged from somebody's old fishing box; a lead cylinder I found on the road (formerly a big swaged joint on a steel cable). Lidl's fishing boxes often include a few 1oz/30g leads which could be used (barrels, balls &, perhaps, coffins).

The wires are from the paternosters of an old crab handline - usually about a pound from a tourist gift shops. Old sparklers might work. One uses some thick old mono I recovered from the sea attached to a weight. The Art of Fishing calls the ones with a wire or rigid spine "bar spoons" - like a Mepps-style spinner, the mono-spine ones are supposed to wobble more and are called flounder spoons.

[ADM]

Nice work. You can also try those with a heavier rod and retrieve slowly, just set up a running ledger with a 4oz lead and 2ft or so trace to the spoon and some maddies on the hook, just cast out and retrieve really slowly so the lead disturbs the sand, I think that would work better in some places for the flatties as they seem to like to investigate the sand being puffed up by the lead, see the spoon and have the worms, all my plaice have been had to this method, with or without spoon but always with a load of beads and a nice bunch of wriggly worms.

[Mr. X]

Interesting. I've been thinking of getting a stronger rod for bait fishing &, perhaps lure fishing too. I was thinking of, perhaps, a 4 or 5 piece carb rod with maybe 2-2.5lb test curve carp rod rated for casting upto 3oz (don't know much about rods & test curves though - casting weight is what I normally look for). Perhaps that is too light still - what rating would you recommend?

I can't see myself getting into full-on beach casting -- too much equipment, too involved. However, it would be nice to be able to cast a bit more weight & bait. The tip of my spinning rod seems too light & sensitive for general sea fishing. Also, it dawned on me this year that lure fishing is not as complementary to spearfishing as I first thought. Lures work best in clear & flatter conditions - same as spearfishing, heavy seas/winds are not fishable. So, while it is good to have a quick cast around before or after a spearing season, it's not going to fill those bad weather days when spearing is out of the question. (Although, who wants to go fishing in lousy weather, especially if you have to go out & find bait first!). So I'm thinking some light bait fishing might also be worth a try. I'll probably use my old 13 ft coarse rod for a while to see what is needed -- it was originally used with super-light, sensitive tackle so this is quite a stretch. It seems quite sturdy though - we'll see! I've still got the big Leeda fixed spool "surf" reel which seems ideal for heavier bait work.

[ADM]

Something like a bass rod would suit you best, casting 3-4oz so a carp rod with a 3lb test curve would be OK, just it wouldn't handle a 3oz lead and large bait.

No need for beachcasting, just a handful of 3oz leads, all your other things and something to cast them with.

[atomichaggis]

Originally Posted by Mr. X

Interesting. I've been thinking of getting a stronger rod for bait fishing &, perhaps lure fishing too. I was thinking of, perhaps, a 4 or 5 piece carb rod with maybe 2-2.5lb test curve carp rod rated for casting upto 3oz (don't know much about rods & test curves though - casting weight is what I normally look for). Perhaps that is too light still - what rating would you recommend?

I can't see myself getting into full-on beach casting -- too much equipment, too involved. However, it would be nice to be able to cast a bit more weight & bait. The tip of my spinning rod seems too light & sensitive for general sea fishing. Also, it dawned on me this year that lure fishing is not as complementary to spearfishing as I first thought. Lures work best in clear & flatter conditions - same as spearfishing, heavy seas/winds are not fishable. So, while it is good to have a quick cast around before or after a spearing season, it's not going to fill those bad weather days when spearing is out of the question. (Although, who wants to go fishing in lousy weather, especially if you have to go out & find bait first!). So I'm thinking some light bait fishing might also be worth a try. I'll probably use my old 13 ft coarse rod for a while to see what is needed -- it was originally used with super-light, sensitive tackle so this is quite a stretch. It seems quite sturdy though - we'll see! I've still got the big Leeda fixed spool "surf" reel which seems ideal for heavier bait work.

I think You should pick up a shakespeare 'odessa bass' while there are still some on the market. I think they go for around £40. sounds perfect for your requirements... not to mention one of the best value rods ever.
the extra muscle helps when baitfishing yet you can hold it all day long and do heavier lure fishing with it. It wouldn't be any more a handful than a carp rod yet more fit for purpose.

If you fancy treating yourself then get what I got... Century tip tornado ultralite and abu ambassadeur 65ct mag premium super light but a total animal.

Happy new year!

[Magpie]

Animal? Maybe a fluffy puppy or a guinea pig! Lovely rods, far more capable than they are often given credit for, but couldn't be described as an animal imho

But totally agree about the Odessa Bass, very good value and very versatile. Their Salt Bass rods are equally good value. I've just rerung my old Quatzlite Flattie (exactly the same blank as the Odessa range, just older) with SICs that cost more than the rod orginally did, which shows how I feel about it!

[atomichaggis]

Originally Posted by Magpie

Animal? Maybe a fluffy puppy or a guinea pig! Lovely rods, far more capable than they are often given credit for, but couldn't be described as an animal imho

But totally agree about the Odessa Bass, very good value and very versatile. Their Salt Bass rods are equally good value. I've just rerung my old Quatzlite Flattie (exactly the same blank as the Odessa range, just older) with SICs that cost more than the rod orginally did, which shows how I feel about it!

I guess I meant deceptively powerful... pitbull puppy perhaps
It's so thin and light even compared to the TT match and super match rods... gives you a bit of a shock first time you sling a lead out with it.

Seldom hear a bad word about the Odessa. Are the Salt Bass rods entirely new or just repackaged?

[Magpie]

Ah yeh, Pitbull Puppy, good description.

Don't know for sure but waggling one in a shop the Salt did seem different, not such a fast action of the odessa, a more blended mid section.

[atomichaggis]

So hard to get an honest review of rods as all the angling mags are sponsored by the tackle companies... particularly shakespeare.
I would expect their stuff to get pretty damn good soon after they took over Penn but not sure if they are still just bundling off old stuff.

[Magpie]

Thats where web forums are so useful. Can't remember ever reading about a bad rod or reel in the comics!

Shakespeare have always been a bit bargain basement, with the odd gem amongst the dross, and I'd expect them to stay that way with Penn phasing out their lower priced ranges and concentrating on the higher end stuff.

[ADM]

Are you over this year Mr X? If you can wait that long I have an Odessa Bass you can have for £15, few scratches and one ring replaced by my "expert" (lol) hands... I have too many bass rods and need to get rid of a few.

Can't post it though as he sections are over 5ft. Bloney post office.