Sea Angling for Spearos

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by miles

. Spooled with .50mm and .55mm mono, plus a leader, casting a 6-9oz sinker!! ...

I thought 1oz was heavy...9oz. Why do you use so much weight -- esp. if it reduces your casting distance? (Strong currents?)

[foxfish]

Mr x I do in fact use lots of different rod & line combinations. However I prefer to use the lightest tackle I can get away with. The 10lb braid is so thin I only need 1oz of lead to keep my bait on the bottom. If I was using 30lb mono I would need 5oz to present my bait. Of course your rod must be matched to the line as well, in this case a 10' carbon rod with a fiberglass tip section. The light weight & the non stretch braid gives me instant bite detection, allowing me to react appropriately to the type of bite different species give. If for instance I felt the bite was a flatfish, I would immediately pay out some line, other fish require less line or a strike. Of course I am not targeting huge fish but smallish edible bottom dwelling fish maybe up to 6 or 7lb.
When drift fishing I will let out quite a bit of line so the bait is safely on the bottom, maybe 40-60mts in 12mts of water depth. I dont think you will find much luck using limpets for bait, but you can buy clams, worms etc from tackle shops.

[Magpie]

Lots of questions, I'll try to answer all I can remember.

Right, multiplier reels, do they cast further? Yes and no, for light weights, plugs etc, no, for beachcasting, yes, in the right hands. Is the difference in distance noticeable? No, not really. I prefer using multipliers for all of my bottom fishing, from 1oz up to 8oz, but for plugging fixed spool is the way to go.
You do not need to brake the reel with your thumb (apart from stopping it at the end of the cast) as long as its set up correctly for type of fishing you are doing. I could talk for hours about how to set up multiplier and the different types of braking etc but you're better off sticking to fixed spools, the wrong multiplier will be an absolute nightmare if you don't know what you're doing with it. Most of my multi's (I have faaaaar too many) especially the ones used for proper distance, are customised to casts specific weights on specific line diameters.

There are many reasons to use heavy weights, tide and large baits being the main ones, most people will cast 4-5oz the furthest, though 8 can be cast plenty far enough, I can do 200m with 200grams, which is about 7 1/s oz, and I'm not that good on the heavier weights.

The daiwa whisker rods are not akin to the amorphous wisker rods we're talking about, they are spinning rods, and very good ones, but we're talking about top level beachcasters. A bloke called Paul Kerry used one to cast 290 yards....they haven't made them for many many years because the material became too expensive.

Limpets will catch you small rockies but not a lot else.

[miles]

Hiya

Fixed spool reels have received a bad reputation here. They were considered toys and not REAL fishing tackle and were considered only good for very small fish and to be used by total novices!! How-ever, over the last couple of years, fixed spool reels have advanced HUGELY!!! There is now a BIG variety of QUALITY fixed spools at a very reasonable price.

I started teaching my wife to fish rock and surf with a fixed spool. Its very simple to use, very rarely do you have to sort out birds nest (over-runs), handles light sinkers very well, is ideal for lighter lines and its generally easier to fish with. She has now progressed on to multipliers, simply becuase she WANTS to!!

One of my friends fish's with a Shimano Stella off the boat. He's caught EVERYTHING, from 90kg+ Yellowfin to 200kg+ marlin on his STELLA!!! Yet, many of the old salts here STILL scoff at using fixed spool reels!

Over-runs (bird's nest), the BANE of all multiplier users. No matter HOW experienced you are, we ALL fairly often STILL get over-runs!! Not as bad as a beginner would get, but we STILL get them all the same!! Its very difficult for a beginner to enjoy his fishing if every cast is thwarted by an over-run. Thats why a fixed spool is so much nicer. Less hassles, means more time to ENJOY your fishing.

Magpie, Foxfish, OMD and others: we've recently started using BERKLEY POWERBAITS. Its a SCENTED plastic worm/crab. The freshwater black bass guys have been using it for ages. I've used it on a 7' Shimano Crucial rod with a 400 Calcutta, flipping it into gulleys inbetween the rocks and kelp beds. Haven't taken anything spectacular on it, but i have caught quite a bit of fish on it!! Same off the boat. Nothing big, probably just under 5kg's, but since the season is over, i'm pretty sure it'll get a good work-out in summer. Have you guys tried this yet?? Think of the possibilities.......no more digging up rag/lug worm or running around catching peeler crabs!! Simply grab a packet or two of the Powerbait worms or crabs and off you go!! No more have the Dept. of HOME affairs nag about how smelly the 'fridge or freezer is becuase of your bait!!

Regards
miles

[omega3]

Originally Posted by Mr. X

Sounds interesting Omega3 but I didn't understand some of the terminology [see above]. (Are you on rigs or boats?)

Both Mr. X(by the way is that handle from a book ? can`t remember the name but about some fella in hiding and he had a cat called "Asmodius") but in this instance a pipelay barge.

I will explain with the use of pictures being worth a thousand words. I don`t know the people in the pictures, companies involved where they were taken etc. I found them. Sorry if it deviates from topic a bit.

GOM= Gulf of Mexico
Yokohama= large buoy. In this instance black and covered in tyres
Remora= type of fish with suction pad on its head
Bander= used in packaging. tightens a band around an item to secure it or its contents contents
Wahoo= big fish looks a bit like a Barracuda
Stinger= as in scorpions tail. interface between barge and water for laying pipeline on seabed

Please excuse the few extra pics that are off topic ....they seem to show a bit of pollution which does`nt help anyones fishing!

[omega3]

Pheeeewwwww

[Mr. X]

Thanks Omega3, I feel like I just got a glimpse of another world (Water World perhaps?!). Looks exciting. (I'll PM you the Mr. X story).

[Mr. X]

Interesting that you like the new plastic bait Miles. I read about them on a US website a couple of weeks ago, as you say used for freshwater bass fishing. There is a guy in Cornwall that vacuum packs sandeels & the like & sells them on ebay too. Prob. a good idea for folk like me - but guys who live by the sea & fish a lot probably catch their own bait easily & cheaply(?).

Magpie, saw this on ebay .. DAIWA AMORPHOUS WHISKER UPTIDER: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...DME:B:DS:UK:28
(I'm cancelling the search though, lest I be tempted into further purchases ).

[SurfnSpear]

Mr. X you might like a go at Salt water flyfishing. I have done a bit of it just off the rocks in and around the Gannel Estuary with my 9ft Malachite rod and have had some reasonable takes. I would say approaching some offshore rocks etc. by use of a sea kayak (which I know you like) would be interesting too. Flyflicker is probably the man to add to this fully. Be interested to see some pics of sea flies. I personally have had success with predominantly weighted minnow greens/green-blacks.

Regards

[Magpie]

Originally Posted by Mr. X

Magpie, saw this on ebay .. DAIWA AMORPHOUS WHISKER UPTIDER: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320009453923&ssPageNam e=ADME:BS:UK:28
(I'm cancelling the search though, lest I be tempted into further purchases ).

Thats not one of the proper AW rods, its a more recent one with the name tagged on, and "uptiders" are used for boat fishing, casting from a boat up the tide and letting a big bow of line out, not shore casting.

Nope, haven't tried the powerbait Miles but you can get it so might have to one of these days.

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by SurfnSpear

Mr. X you might like a go at Salt water flyfishing. ...

I'd never really thought about fly fishing (except after watching a River Runs Through It, of course...who wouldn't want to flyfish after seeing that) but several people have mentioned it recently. I hadn't realised that flyfishing was used for sea fishing until I recently read Mike Ladel's book (he uses a marine wood louse fly to catch bass sometimes). My next door neighbour showed me a 3lb+ brown trout he caught recently on the local river (possibly at a fish farm?). A couple of guys at work: one goes to Ireland to fish every year, the other, originally from Kenya, takes his rod & fishes all over the world (he just lent me the book "The Complete Guide to Fishing Skills" by Tony Whieldon). A 70 year old fisherman on the beach at the weekend told me his kids recently bought him a days fishing (£65!) and he caught a 9.5lb rainbow trout. A former colleague took his wife on a flyfishing holiday to Canada (from the NW USA).

When I was young, the chairman or secretary of the British Flyfishing Association lived in our village. A distinguished gentleman, retired Brigadier. He would take his big yellow vintage Rolls Royce down to Wales every year fishing. I guess I was left with the impression that it was a stylish but expensive pursuit!

Presumably you need a special fly rod, reel & line? I would love to try it. I think it would be good to do from the seashore too. It just seems like there is not enough time (or money!) for me to pursue fishing fully. Must start doing the lottery!

[miles]

Hiya

Told you, you were opening a can of worms!!!

Salt Water Fly Fishing. Up until fairly recently, maybe the last 5 years or so, fly fishing was mainly a fresh water sport. Then Salt Water Fly Fishing boomed!!! With such a large variety of fish that'll succumb to a fly, its amazing the sport didn't become popular sooner!!

I'm HOPELESS at Salt Water Fly Fishing. Tried it on a handfull of occasions, but some-how lost interest. What happened here: most anglers here start out in freshwater lakes or dams or rivers, then moving onto estuary and tidal rivers before finally moving off to sea fishing. As the angler grows in the sport, so does his need to challenge himself. Once you've mastered the art of catching a certain fish on certain tackle, you start trying different approaches. You start fishing lighter lines, just for the fun of it. Finally, you switch to Salt Water Fly Fishing. You need LOTS of experience to be a succesful fly fisherman. You need to be able to "read" the water, know which tides work best, for which area's. Your casting distance in very small. I've seen guys casting 40-50m+, which is AMAZING, with a fly-rod. Your normal distance would be anything from 10-30m depending on your casting prowess. Your days are also limited to good weather conditions. Pretty difficult casting a deceiver into a strong head wind. Then there's tackle!! Rods are classified in a WEIGHT system. I use a 9wt rod for general salt water fly fishing. Its a bit heavy for estuary use, but we often get fish well over 20kg's, so i'd rather be over-powered!! The tuna guys use 12wt+ rods, whilst the freshwater trout anglers use 4-6wt's. The reels are also different from fresh water fly fishing reels. In freshwater, the reel only holds the line, much line a spearfishing reel. For salt water, the reels have drag systems and the handle/s don't spin backwards when a fish takes line!! (OUCH!!) Then there's lines. The BASIC lines are the floating, sinking and intermediate lines. There are some more, like shooting heads, lead core, etc........becomes quite technical, some-one with more experience than me is sure to chip in!!!

After all of this, when you actually hook and land your first fish on fly tackle, you'll KNOW what the fuss is all about!!

If you're really keen on trying it out, start off catching small easy to catch fish. Like mackerel. You'll get to learn how to use your equipment as well as build up confidence in your ability!!

Now the BIGGEST trick is to decide, WHEN are you going to buy that BIG 4x4 to cart all your gear around. Its now your kayak, spearing gear, spinning gear, rock and surf gear and now also fly fishing gear!!!

Regards
miles

[Mr. X]

Miles, nobody can accuse you of not fully exploring fishing!

I don't think a regular 4x4 would be big enough for all that gear -- you'd need a big one, like Chevy Suburban (like my old climbing buddy had) or bigger, a roof rack & a trailer or two (like they use for camping in Western Australia). 4x4s (and variants thereof) are becoming fairly popular here -- presumably for the ubiquitous urban speed bumps, pot holes & flooded roads (they rarely maintain road drainage these days). I already get whined at when we go away because of the spearing gear, kayak stuff & fishing gear (which is the smallest part) - I don't think anymore will be tolerated. Boats are a no-no subject.

By the way, you have great taste in reels -- I see the Stella is described as the best fixed spool reel in the world! I guess for fish the size you guys get in SA it is worth it and required. For the odd small pollock...probably not.

[Mr. X]

I have been thinking about shock leaders & weighted Eddystone eels. It just seems a little too complicated (tried it before on the Shimano but the knot used to interfere with casts) so I am thinking of getting some 20lb braid, per Foxfish's earlier suggestion on the Cornwall thread. That way I don't need a shock leader but still get a nice fine line at the all important fishy end.

It seems like it might cost £12 or £14 pounds (gulp! as much as my new reel!) - I will shop around a bit. Mike Ladle suggested starting with 20lb Fireline. Do you guys have brand preferences?

I will probably get a small reel at some point, probably a Shimano 2000 or 2500. Seem like rear drag is generally used for spinning rather than the fromt drag(?). It seems like a small reel will be enough with low diameter braid. Although meantime, I am thinking of getting the braid first & putting it on my old Abu 505...which I think is really intended for freshwater spinning with 6-8lb line. It has a nice star-drag system too.

No spearing this weekend - 12mph winds out of the SW look foreboding. I also racked up an impressive petrol bill last month . Crab cakes for tea though.

[foxfish]

Fireline is a good quality braid although I prefer spiderwire. Some braids are very supple, too supple to cast without causing tangles. The round profile stiffer braids are best for casting, fireline is one. However you dont need such lines to catch fish, a good 15lb mono works very well, try your locale course fishing tackle shop. There are superb low stretch monos available in 100mt spools that the carp & barbel boys use. I have landed some big fish on 12lb mono. Mr x lure fishing in our waters will never produce the same amount of fish that bait fishing will. A good bait to try is squid or calamari from the super market, a frozen 1kg pack is cheap to buy & should last you a few sessions. Try drifting with your bait on the bottom, use a simple boom, 2oz lead & 3' of trace line. A size one or one "o" hook will do the business. While you are paddling swap to a 1oz lead & troll the same rig with thin 3'' strip of squid & let out different amounts of line to fish different depths.