Sea Angling for Spearos

[Mr. X]

Couple of fishing articles from the Countryside Alliance today:

"3. Get involved in National Fishing Week

Sponsored by the Environment Agency, the Angling Trades Association and others, National Fishing Week will run from the 19th-28th August. During the week newcomers and old hands of all ages and abilities will have an opportunity to get involved in events across the country. Click here and type in your post code to find events near you."

National Fishing Week - Welcome

[Mr. X]

Sorry, I have neglected this thread for a while. I got a copy of Sea Angling magazine last week - loads of excellent info. One novel technique shown, used in the murky Mersey, was using a cheap plastic freshwater swimfeeder stuffed with mackeral chum a few feet up line of the bait ... to leave a scent trail. Perhaps an alternative way to weight a light lure .

Thanks for posting all those lure pictures. I have been meaning to reciprocate and finally got round to taking some pics. of most of my collection. The collection has built up v. quickly and is, I think, complete now and in need of trimming down. I have only tried a few of them so far, and in truth, the only lures I have caught fish on so far are my smallest Eddystone eel (not shown), Mepps-style spinners (some shown but not the actual ones) and mackeral feathers & spinners (also not shown).

The first picture shows my plug/Rapala style lures, mainly from eBay & Lidls. They generally medium-large & weigh most weight around 20-24g, the big yellow one is 30g or so. Top left are floating "poppers". The red/white lure with metal lip on the middle left is S. African. The red/white plug below has an adjustable lip for different depths (gimmick -- tends to move up in practice). The gels all came in a cheap Lidls tack box (super value). The battered blue mackeral lure in the middle is, I think, like Magpie's; it was one of my first lures, I always carry it and it gets a fair amount of use (I have a couple of them). The Storm Minnow below I recovered from the sea, while searching for the lure above! The Devon Minnow is my big brother's - incomplete so I can't use it but I just know it would pull fish in! The fancy, jointed, holographic lures were part of a good deal I got from seafishire on eBay - they certainly look the biz.

The second picture is of odds & ends. That said I have a feeling that these might be some of the more effective lures. Eddystone eels definitely catch fish -- cheap, effective and long lasting. I have stuffed the middle sized one (the smaller one shown) with big lead split-shot for longer casting - a tip from Dr. Mike Ladle (alt. a lead ball 3-5ft up line will "catch anything at Chesil" according to a local fisherman). Mepps-style spinners have always worked well in freshwater and will, no doubt, in the sea too; lots of vibration and flash. These ones are a little bigger and quite a bit heavier than the ones I have used in the past -- big & heavy seems to be the order of the day for sea fishing: big fish, long casts and turbulent water. Just bought 2 cheap sets of Tobys - can't wait to try them. The first set are medium weight (18-20g I think - about the same as the rapalas, maybe a little lighter). I am thinking these might snag less than a rapala but maybe not. The big ones I only found later (darn) -- at 40g (my rod is rated 10g-60g) they should cast some distance . There is also a small, heavy SureCatch Pilchard at 30g. The only gel I have tried to far is the pink worm with the lead head hook -- why not?! I have a feeling the big orange lead head Rapala gel and the blue green gel shads will catch fish. Not so sure about the Lidl's frog! The new flavoured & scented versions are probably the mutts nuts -- bit pricy but probably worth it if they work.

Did I mention I don't take digital pictures usually...but that's glaringly obvious!

[Mr. X]

BTW I am using 12lb monofilament line currently, it seems tough enough to (slowly) pull snagged lures from weed snags ... 10lb line seemed to break (although I didn't realise at first that pulling *slowly* makes a huge difference).

Thinking of getting a smaller reel later on, 2500/4000 Shimano, and using it with braid (maybe 20lb green), per earlier suggestions (thanks guys). I read that some folk use a mono leader with braid when using lures but seems to spoil (or at least temper) most of the benefits of braid (smaller diameter, greater strength, less stretch) - it doesn't make sense to me.

[foxfish]

Nice to have you back posting Mrx
There are various reasons to use mono leaders with braid, mainly as a shock absorber. Because there is so little stretch with braid adding a mono leader will smooth out a cast or stop the hook pulling out on a big fish. Mono is sometimes used as a rubbing leader if fishing rough ground, is is also easy to tie on terminal end tackle with mono.

[miles]

Hiya

Also protects your fingers when casting with a fixed spool reel!!

Regards
miles

[Mr. X]

My old reel was an ABU 505 closed face reel which was unusual in having a star drag on the main handle axle (you can also reel back to reduce the drag suddenly). The reel was intended as a specialist light freshwater spinning \ reel - although I expect many a big Scandanavian salmon was caught on one. I used it mainly for coarse fishing with 4lb line.

The new Shimano fixed spool reels seem to come in 2 main flavours, FA (front drag) and RA (rear drag), which some variations, such as fighting dray, MRA. For some reason, the rear drag ones strike me as most practical - but I'm not familiar with the front drags -- anybody care to comment on them?

Also any opinions of retreive ratios: 1:4.5, 1:5, 1:5.5, 1:6, 1:6.2? My current reel seems to whip the lures in obscenely fast -- I wonder if it might be too fast. Our other little Shimano spinning set-up, which is probably nearer the other end of the spectrum w.r.t. retrieve ratio seems fine, perhaps a little low. Like so many, perhaps one in the middle is "just right"!

[miles]

Hiya

Fixed spools. The beach casting fisherman tend to prefer the front drag, as you can solidly lock down the spool. How-ever, for your application, it doesn't matter which one you choose.

Retrieve ratio's. ALWAYS buy the FASTEST speed reel you can get!! Its as simple as slowing down your retrieve rate when you want to work a lure slower. On the slower reels, you can simply only wind so fast!!

Regards
miles

[Mr. X]

Merry Christmas one & all!

I got a deal on a 200m spool of Penn Dynabraid 20lb/0.22mm braid (I think they have a newer product out now). I could put the whole spool on my reel -- it is exactly the right amount to fill the spool of my new 2500 reel -- but I think I might instead put on 50m of 10lb (0.30mm) line as backing, that way I can equip two reel/spools. Good idea or not?

What knot would you use to join mono to braid - an Allbright? I've been using this variation ("Alberto knot") since last year: http://www.stripersonline.com/Pages/...tos_knot.shtml
but both seem a little bulky & can spoil casts, so I try to avoid the need to join line.

I was planning to use the Palomar knot for joining clips, hooks, etc. - seems strong, simple & suitable for braid. I see Penn recommend the 'Dynabraid clinch knot' - like a regular half blood knot but with the line doubled.

Looking forward to doing some fishing!

[Mr. X]

A group of us went down to the coast yesterday with rods, so got a chance to try out the new reel & braid. Couple of observations for anyone thinking of taking this up:

- the Penn Dynabraid seems really good & strong (& blue), although it seemed fatter than the claimed 0.22mm diameter? I only got about half my 200m/yd spool on -- the whole lot should have gone on.

- Shimano Exage is good value (if you shop around), v. sleek & v. smooth. The handle feels a tad small (I probably got used to the hunking great fighting handle on my big reel), & the 1:5.2 retrieve ratio seems a little low to me for sea-fishing (but my big reel seemed too fast at 1:6+).



- Shimano 2500 might be a tad low capacity [see comments above & below] for seafishing. I suspect the 4000 size would be ideal for shore fishing lures - Mike Ladle uses Shimano Stradic 4000. The Shimano 4000s aren't physically much bigger or heavier than the 2500 and the 4000s usually have a bigger "fighting handle" too. Some variants of the Stradic 4000 have a 1:6 retrieve ratio]. The 1000, which I was considering, would have been much too small, IMHO. I will try a slimmer braid next time -- some brands (e.g. Berkley Whiplash Pro) claim a much lower diameter (e.g. 0.09mm or 0.068 mm).

- lost a couple cheap Tobies & a lot of expensive braid before a young companion showed me his trick for freeing badly stuck lures .

Got some really good casts after swapping to a big popper but saw no sign of fish. We also tried a medium Eddystone eel & a couple of single hook gel lures (3 of the group were fishing). We changed locations & got to try a YoZuri Cristal(sic) Minnow (floating shallow diver) and some Storm & Rapala J-13-style lures.[IMG]http://www.hardwarestore.com/media/product/109894_front200.jpg[IMG]

I didn't realise how lightweight this new set up was until we compared it to my old 13ft hollow fibre glass coarse rod with my big 6000/7000+ sea reel from last year. The former is practically weightless while the latter was heavy and tiring to use..

I've set up my spool with backing mono now (12.5lb & 25lb), Allbright knotted onto the remains of the 20lb braid. I might try 1m mono leads on on the braid next time out; I see Dr. Mike is currently doing this to avoid snags. Mono is harder to see than braid too.

[Shimano reel on-line movies -- doesn't work for me, perhaps it will for you: Shimano Experience]

[Mr. X]

[The link that started this: Mike Ladle's Fishing Diary ]
I have been thinking of getting a few circle hooks. ML describes a very simple rig for live/dead baiting - basically just stick a circle hook on your line & lip-hook the bait. If you need buoyancy, add a wine cork (or part thereof) up-line a little. Circle hooks tend to lip hook cleanly (rather than being deeply swallowed) & set without striking - sounds good.

Veals are carrying a semi-circle hook which claims to have the advantages of the circle hook while allowing worms to be hooked more easily (seems like you usually give up something with compromise designs tho').

As best I can make out, Varivas 4/0-6/0 circle hooks & Varivas 3/0 semi-circle hooks are the sizes to get for bass (but check for yourselves): https://www.veals.co.uk/acatalog/Varivas.html#a1969

[Mr. X]

Circle Hooks:
I've ordered 6/0 & 5/0 circle hooks (different brands & design) but just discovered Mike Ladle is actually using 4/0s. Probably not that critical for large sea fishes...although hook & line size are critical factors for coarse fishing (we used 2lb & 4lb line with tiny size 18/20/22 hooks for the local waters...heavier, more "normal" gear was generally ignored by the fish).

Books:
Just found some of Dr. Mike Ladle's angling books on line, both old, expensive collectors items:

• Operation Sea Angler
• Lure Fishing: A New Approach to Spinning

... and new affordable books:

• Hooked On Bass

...& DVDs too:

• Fishing - The Mythical Mullet With Mike Ladle And Steve Pitts

Other books & videos:

• Mike Ladle books & DVDs

I didn't realise fishing books could be such a fantastic investment [see prices of the old books above] - the Guernsey spearos did tell me fishing gear is an investment tho'

[foxfish]

I have the first two books, good read.
Personally I use much smaller circle hooks. 1/s-2/o. Hooks are best matched to the size of bait rather than size of fish. It is quite possible to catch very big fish on strong small hooks, circles are fantastic at obtaining a very good mouth hold, almost always catching the fish cleanly in the jaw. The down side is the actual bait presentation, worms for instance are impossible to thread on in a conventional way.

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by foxfish

I have the first two books, good read....

Look after them...looks like they're valuable now (even though Operation Sea Angler is published on the web). Will probably get rarer & more valuable.

Originally Posted by foxfish

Personally I use much smaller circle hooks. 1/s-2/o. Hooks are best matched to the size of bait rather than size of fish. It ...

Typical! I did try to find a mixed size pack. I suppose we learn by our mistakes.
I added this link above: Mike Ladle's Fishing Diary...as it was the original article that got me interested in this, & one of the image pop-up captions mentions a 6/0 hook being used for the large mackeral bait. (Although I'd be inclined to keep a mackeral for personal consumption! ).

BTW heard last week that the EU have reduced cod quotas but increased mackeral quotas.

[foxfish]

Mr x, the hooks you have brought will be perfect for certain circumstances.
To be honest I would not pay to much attention to the size rating of circle hooks as they dont seem to comply with regular hook sizing. I guess I am lucky in the fact we have well stocked tackle shops on our door step. Hopefully you will be able to visit us soon & we can go shopping.

[Old Man Dave]

Mr X

Just to prove I'm multi talented ; http://forums.deeperblue.net/625954-post20.html

Dave