waterway glide vs. leaderfins hyper

[Mullins]

Originally Posted by chrismar

Does this mean you're back to the v-bend monster for the comp then?

'fraid so. Swimming at 2m/s isn't really my style...

[VGermanos]

Hello everybody!!

My name is Bill and I'm from Greece. I have been training for competitive freediving for 2 years. This season I would like to change my soft carbon bi-fins with a monofin one.
My knowledge about monofins is zero, so I need your help to make a correct choice.
After a long thought, I decide to buy a waterway glide-fin, don't ask me why, just because I like it more.
However, I don't Know which stiffness I should choose. I prefer a soft monofin because I don't like the hard feeling from a hard blade, it's too tiring and I spend a lot of oxygen.

To sum up, the waterway glide-fin with the black blade in soft stiffness is good choice for a beginner? (I've never swum with a monofin before). I am 26 years old, 1.79 height and 74 kilos, with good physical condition. Secondly, if this monofin is not suitable for me which one is ?

PS. My foot seize is 43, I should prefer a 42-43 size or a 44-45 ? Because, I think we wear monofins with neoprene socks.

Thanks in advance,
Bill Germanos

[chrismar]

Originally Posted by Mullins

'fraid so. Swimming at 2m/s isn't really my style...

Yeah, I've noticed!

[Fondueset]

Vgermanos

I am sure you will get plenty of advice here. I am not a competitive diver and my monofin experience is somewhat limited - but I have researched and spoken with a couple of manufacturers.

I started with the Waterway nemo. I went with the size recommendation from where I bought it - performance freediving. It was very painful at first but now I can wear it for up to 6 hours - and use it in very cold water - 2C. In my Opinion the Nemo is probably the best built entry level monofin on the market. The blades are laminated like more expensive fins and it is extremely well put together. What it lack is blade angle - the angle on the Nemo is only about 12 degrees. It is better, in my opinion, to have at least 24 degrees or so. (blade angle is relative to the plane of your foot) More angle helps you to swim with straighter legs and optimizes the strong part of your kick.

Other fin makers, such as leaderfins and specialfins, make monofins with comfortable bi-fin style foot pockets and more blade angle. Fins with this style pocket are very comfortable for recreational diving but are not as efficient as the 'Hyperfin' style fins we are discussing here - (Waterway Glide, Custom fin from Triton or Hyperfins, Leaderfins Hyper and Hyper pro etc.) The Hyperfins work a little differently - the pockets are very tight and the design uses some flex from the footpocket as well as the blade. The performance difference is HUGE! But they are not so comfortable.

Consensus is that a soft blade is generally better for apnea. Mine is a medium but I was used to a hard waterway nemo. I think you will definitely want a soft blade - particularly if you go with the Waterway Glide.

My Hyperfin was made by Max at Triton specifically to my requirements and I am very happy with it. It does have some V-bend - but not like the pictures Dave has posted. I think it helps stabilize the fin, and also makes it more maneuverable. I asked that the pockets be made to fit 5 mil socks and so far I have been able to wear it for over two hours at a time. My dive partner must exhaust himself swimming as hard as he can with his C4 carbon fins when I am just cruising along.

If your focus is competition I think a Hyperfin is a good idea. If it is more recreational diving then you may want to look at specialfins or leaderfins. The Leaderfins Free Flier looks interesting - but they also make a Hyperfin for about the same price. (Leaderfins Hyper) You can contact any of the manufacturors - they are all very willing to help and discuss your needs.

I have a trick for the footpockets. I turn them inside out - so the open cell neoprene is on the outside (better if it was smooth neoprene but I've not found any) then coat them with KY jelly. This makes it possible to get them on without wrinkles or having the sock catch and compress my toes.

[Kars]

Hi everybody,

I tried my friend's new monofin for a couple of dives and a surface swim to the shor through bad diving weather last sunday.

Since the beginning of this year I've gone from a Waterway classic MD2 Middle Distance to a HyperfinS (freediving) middle Distance. Compared to Waterway the HyperfinS feels soft, so keep that in mind when ordering. Since I got my Hyperfins appart form dynamics my deepest dive with this fin was at the ApnoeHappening in a CW dive to 50m. Though the HyperfinS' rubber is more flexible than used by Waterway it didn't give me the feeling at depth that I was moving about. In the footpockeds I use an old plastic sack to prevent blisters and tighten up the fin for a firm fit. In my quest to cut down my CW divetime, I used a 3mm suit, and just 1KG of weight in the sweet water of the Kreidensee for the dive. I practically swam the whole way down, looked up to the 'plate' two times, breaking for equalisation and watching out for the plate in the deep cool 6 c water. In all the dive took just a 1' 26", a big speed record for me. On the way up Natalia (I call my dear HyperfinS Natalia ) did perform well, dispite my my average monofin technique.
Now back to last sunday's divesession where I used both the HyperfinS and the WaterWay Custom 30deg hard rubber Medium Glide fin of my friend. After some dives up to the bottom of 33m with Natalia we switched monofins in the strong wind and swells (6-7 BF) to see how the Waterway would feel. The footpockeds were fine, albeit a bit spacious for my flat feet. The fin appeared a bit less bouyand at the surface. As I swam down I noticed it was indeed much stiffer than my Hyperfins. It felt like it needed force to start to really to work. Still my equalisation isn't fast enough to go down 2m/s, so I feel I would rather have a softer fin for going down because you'll use it in it's most effective performance range. Near the bottom at 30 I turned in the pitchblack space, it was mentally challenging to swim from 20m down because it didn't make ANY difference weather to have the eyes open or closed, I turned arround and with a medium speed I swam up. I still noticed that I still was not using the Waterway Medium within it's performance range. That day I used a 3mm Dight density smoothskin suit, 1,5KG of lead weight, a normal amount of air, no packing and was about nutral at about 15m. I also took notice that I was very little negative at depth as was my intension.

My friends fin will be best for a big person, who dives with a thick suit, carries a normal to high amount of weight and packs air. With this he'll punch through the first 15m, maintains speed until 25, and than eases out into a glide from than on, to fall like a stone to say 50, 60+ meters. Upon the turn all that weight must be put up and a few strong kicks with this Waterway 30 deg medium will probably perform great at this, without folding transferring cleanly all the divers' power to the water.

In Dynamics it will need a swimmer with strong muscles, and good lactoce tolerance to be used at a higher speed than the HyperfinS Medium. The Nutral boyancy at the surface and the near nutral at depth I find a good thing.

Personally I'm a pretty skinny person, 1,87m 73KG, and I'm venturing more into the direction of FRC diving, where I appreaciate the near nutral boyancy and forcing my body to go anearobe much earlyer. This for me cancels the need for a very stiff fin at depth as I'm just 3-5KG negative at depth. This is a big change to ealier times when I carried 4,5KG of lead down, packed to max, and whore a soft 5mm full suit.
Mayby I can teach my body to even relax naked in 18c - 6c water, instead of going into spasm like tensioning as a reaction to the cold. Enough cold water arround to train this.

I hope my experiences are helpfull for those wanting to buy a advanced mono fin.

Next week I am at the Great Nordic Deep event in Sweden, let's see how that goes.

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

[Will]

For those of you who are thinking of buying a monofin, a word of warning concerning one of the brands: Hyperfin, manufactured in Russia have a dismal track record with myself and all of the people who I know that have ordered from them.
The fin they made me was at least 3 sizes too big, despite them having been supplied with detailed measurements of all dimensions of both my feet. In fact nobody I have talked to who has ordered a Hyperfin has received a fin that fits their feet.
This wouldn't be a problem if Hyperfin admits and corrects its mistake, but they boldly allege that we have given them the wrong measurements, and when their reasoning regarding this is invalidated they simply cease to communicate.
As a result I have a fin that nobody can use and no chance of any refund.

I know that many of the Eastern European fin manufacturers have their problems, but this is one that I would stay well clear of.

[Fondueset]

I'll take this opportunity to put in another plug for Max Moroz who made my Hyperfin style fin. I got the fin two weeks from when I ordered it and it is perfect despite my unusual request for footpockets that will accomodate a 5mil sock. I ordered medium stiffness and, while the fin feels softer than either of my waterway nemos (soft and hard) it seems perfectly tuned to my body - the difference in speed and efficiency is stunning and it is much easier to have good technique. Max is very willing to communicate and was quite concerned when I reported a small area at the front of the 'toe' section had come loose from the blade. This was easily repaired with superglue and was never a problem in terms of function - the fin continues to perform flawlessly after several months of 4-6 dives per week.

Heres the Triton site Triton Underwater Sport Equipment

[KatFish]

I'll give Triton a plug too.

After 9 months of botched efforts by Leaderfins to get me a fin in one piece, waiting three months each time they finally offered me a refund (which I must admit I haven't recieved as yet, but looking at their track record I'm assuming it'll take three months - condensed saga= fin 1: broken, fin 2: broken, fin 3: fin 2 chopped off and "custom" footpockets much too small and wide=floppy and incredibly painful on the toes) so I ordered a fin from Max in the hope that I'd actually get my own fin prior to our competition (last week).

The fin arrived 2 days sort of three weeks from ordering it (I did pay extra for the courier to NZ) and was well packaged in what was essentially a wooden crate. And (wait for it) he actually gave me what I asked for!!! He managed to reduce the buoyancy in the footpockets for me (I can wear 2kg less than what I had to wear with the Leaderfins and it straightens me up from a U shape to something more ressembling a freediver), the footpockets fit pretty well (still painful, but a consistant tightness without any real pressure points that are any worse than any others). Plus it's got good glide angle. I ordered a soft blade and it does feel slightly stiffer but I think this may be because it's not bending through the footpockets like the leaderfins one I tried did. Max gave great service and seemed genuinely interested in me as a customer and what I wanted. It got me to no2 in the AIDA rankings after only a couple of training sessions with it, so I'd recommend it.

Why does it have to be such a lottery with hyperfins??? We should all just go without fins!!!

[Mullins]

A word of caution for anybody ordering a waterway or other hyper-style fin with heaps of angle like mine: they are great for my style of diving as they let you streamline perfectly, so overall energy conservation is excellent. However there is no pre-loading (for want of a better term), so the fin feels 'short'. I think you need a very flexible back to get the most out of them otherwise the stroke ends up too short. This means your abs/back must take quite a load, which can make DYN difficult if you pack lots (I have to be careful not to strain my diaphragm on the turns, and tiring my core muscles out during the swim makes me more susceptible to this). I'm very happy with the design of my fin (blade stiffness aside) but it would be a good idea to try out a fin with high angle before committing to buying one.

[salibandy]

Max started making all his deliveries more secure after the accident with my fin, so you guys have it good. But still, I love my fin after modifying it. And as has been said, Max has great customer service. Excellent.

I did my research and took a chance with Max, and now have a great fin. And I'm well chuffed to see that people have had the same experience as me. Hopefully Max'll have even more orders, that way the science of Hyperfin making can grow and become even better.

[DivingDane]

Well i'll join the group of happy Triton hyperfin owners.

the fin fits well, recieved it quickly and on time, and performs the way i expected (didnt get the cool wave form but thats because the fin was made to fit my build) so coming from a person who wants perfection in gear i HIGHLY rate both the fin and Max's service. you will not be disappointed.

one happy monofinner.

DD

[Fondueset]

Dave,

I've been thinking less blade angle means more back arching - for both glide and thrust on the backstroke. Thats how it seems to me anyway - comparing my waterway nemo (12deg) to my hyperfin (around 24 I think). In either case your better off with a flexible back but possibly I'm thinking backwards or something

Heres a short burst with my nemo

ftp://michiganfreediving.com/undulation.AVI

[jay cluskey]

any one knowof any websites for mono fins please i want one

[Fondueset]

Check the links on my website (left column). For starters I'd suggest contacting Peformance Freediving

[Mullins]

Fondue - I think you're right, I didn't explain it properly. Now I think about it, with a low-angle mono you need back flexibility to get the blade pitch right, but you don't usually transfer much power from your midsection - instead it comes from your legs. If you did, you'd probably nose-dive because of the asymmetrical resistance unless you adjusted for that in some other way. With a high-angle mono you need moderate flexibility but more importantly you need good power transfer from back through hips & knees (i.e. the whole lot needs to be 'tighter' and loading up the fin should put pressure directly on your abs; the two shouldn't be decoupled). Divers swimming with low-angle blades often seem to have 'loose hips', which you can't really get away with when using a hyper-style blade. Hope that makes some sense....