Is pneumatic the way to go?

[pannystyle]

I have been looking some pneumatic guns and they seem to be quite cheaper than conventional spearguns?

The only questions i have are 1) do pneumatic guns fire as far and as accurately as conventional spearguns? 2) how do you charge a pneumatic gun and is it possible to hunt all day with it and charge it throughout the day?

thanks for any help

[Spaniard]

A pneumatic holds more power than a similar size rubber gun. Accuracy is down to user of gun, all guns are built to be accurate. Pneumatics are usually pumped with a hand-pump device to pre=set levels and then they hold this charge; might need occasional top-up.

[Amphibian]

There are advantages and disadvantages, it's impossible to say which is better as they come out on top in different situations, i'll list these and then make suggestions where they are more suitable.

Advantages of pneumatics compared to rubber:
-Generally more power for length of a single band gun of equal length.
-Easier to load for the same power (unless you have a really long pneu and are short)
-Fully adjustable power/half power switch, whilst you can choose varying notches on a rubber gun a pneu can be analogue choice of power from 0-20/30 bar depending on model, you could have it at 8 bar for cave shooting with less damage or 30 bar with very high shaft speeds and penetration at range.
-Less snagging on weeds etc, often pneumatics are basically a tube whereas weeds can get caught between bands etc, also there is less risk of injuring your hand (watch out for the line still!)
-In many cases pneumatics are slightly more accurate than the same length average rubber gun, obviously top end rail guns are brill and prob better then pneu's however.
-Noise can be much quiter on low power settings, on high power it is often louder than a rubber gun however.
-Stealthier when moving, the tube slices cleanly through water whereas bands can chatter in the water.
-Dry barrel systems (mamba) can produce very high shaft speeds.


Advantages of rubber compared to pneumatics:
-Generally cheaper
-More simple to repair and operate
-Less likely to break down/wear and tear
-Can be transported on aircraft with less restriction due to no pressure vessel.
-Some people find it easier to shoot straight sighting along the spear, you can't do this with a pneu.
-Powerful shots can still be fairly quiet compared to full power pneumatic shots.
-There are some hideously powerful 5 band rubber guns (for tuna etc), these are prefered in this role over pneumatic.
-Can be used in sandy areas with less damage, pneu's are seriously messed up if sand gets scratches the barrel, trigger mechs on rubber are the same but can be more easily maintained, a scratched barrel on a pneu generally means a dead gun...
-Power is retained to a greater depth, only a slight decrease of power in band guns whereas at depths the power of pneu's rapidly decreases.

---------------

-I'd say for the beginner a cheap rubber is the way to go, as the price of a starter pneu is twice or three times that of a rubber.
-If you fish in a really sandy area where fine sand is suspended get a rubber.
-If you need high penetration of big game but want a shorter gun get a pneu.
-If you have difficulty loading powerful rubber guns (my H.dessault sporasub sniper 100cm is bad!) get a shorter pneu.
-If you are mechanically minded you should be able to maintain a pneumatic if you have access to the correct 0-rings.

[pannystyle]

That was very helpful thanks a lot!

[Amphibian]

Oh and a pneumatic could save your life!
Stuck at the bottom about to pass out and you've got a small cylinder of 30bar air! (about 5 breaths?!)that is if you don't mind the oil vapour!

[ulysses]

Very nice and comprehensive summary Amphibian!

However, a decent arbalete / bandgun is by no means cheaper than a state of the art oleopneumatic gun, even more so if you consider maintenance

A Sporasub Stealth/Mares Spark mimetic costs around EUR 70-80. Difficult to find a decent band-gun for that price.

And as to maintenance: EUR 15-20 each season for new bands for an arbalete vs. around EUR 10 for 30ml synthetic fork oil and a set of new o-rings every 3 years for a pneumatic.

Cheers, ulysses

[foxfish]

Just join the dark side & buy a mamba kitted air gun?
You will then have a quite, low recoil & very powerful gun, the mamba system will transform a standard air gun into a underwater ballistic canon!

[octpora]

Yes foxfish, but mr pannystyle from the spamhandle is in florida, so please don't dangle that mamba in his face. Here in the states we have yet to see one(wink, wink) and may just blow our top when we finally get to touch it.

So, where are you spearing p-style? Used to live around there. Was young though so i only got to get out for mullet, flounder, sheepshead. Yes, go pneumo, even if you are denied the venerable mamba.

[AlexF]

During a very long time I used pneumatic guns (mares 750) and was as happy as I could be. Then I decided I wanted to go for larger fish, mainly tuna and purchased a omer 115 Master America. Just before I got this gun I purchased mamba kits for all my pneumatics and when I had them I tested them with coconuts. There was no difference in penetration from the mamba modified gun vs the original one, both being charged at the same pressure, and there was no comparison between the pneumatics and the band gun, although the omer was quite longer and comparison not fair.

After trying the MA I have never gone back to the pneumatic and here are the reasons why.

They don't break down in the middle of a trip.
You can take them on airplanes without having to get the air out.
Power is easier to modify, want less - use one band, need more - use additional bands.
I find the band gun more accurate and capable of reaching longer distances.
Maintenance is reduced to changing bands and oiling the wood.

I now use two guns for everything I do, the omer 115 for fish from 300gr up to wahoo, although I've taken a 75Kg YFT with it and a 183cm 6 band gun for large wahoo or large tuna.

I still have my mares Cyrano 750 with mamba kit that I have never used.

[settingsteel]

If your shooting reefs with fish under 30# (with a few 40-50's thrown in) a farter is hard to beat...its really a personal thing try them both.

I make band guns, but love shooting farters...guys that shoot my band guns can't figure why...it boils down to personal preference is all.

[alexrom1207]

I see that you are from Florida. I spend some time down there but live up in RI. The biggest problem we have in the states with pneumos is that when something goes wrong, you are $h!t out of luck. Dive shop owners will not touch them. The average rocket scientist is completely incapable of taking one apart and fixing it. Leaving the owner with the only option of sending it back to France (for the mares) or usually some european country and waiting several weeks to have it fixed and shipped back. The issue becomes will it break? Some guys say they've used the same pneumo for 10+ years and have never had a problem, other guys have nightmare stories about pneumos???? Maybe someone could chime in with personal experience on this? I've never had one so I can't. Additionally maintenance can be a downside. You can't just spray a pneumo down after a dive and let it dry out in the sun, you may have to oil them, although I don't know if its every dive or just once in a while but some require the gun the be stood up and left upright for several hours.... all coming down to how much hassle you want to put up with. As was stated above about sand can be a issue too, making a beach entrance a possible danger, and a pneumo a bad choice for someone diving from shore. I know mamba kits keep water out of the barrel...it is a possibility they resolve the sand issue as well (logically it would seem that they would) but as was also stated above mamba kits are not really available in the US right now. My personal opinion is go with the band guns (I've never had a pneumo though so this is only a preference based on the theoretical benefits, which may be lessened in application). But basically with a band gun the only maintenance is new bands (cheap and easy) if it breaks (trigger mechanism only real possibility there) it can be fixed or replaced easily by just about anyone who can take apart a remote control.
As for breathing the air out of a pneumo I'm pretty sure amphibian was joking. Assuming you could even get it out of the gun to begin with and breath it in...breathing any type of compressed air at depth is a very bad idea for a freediver (embolism territory) As for breathing air compressed at 30bars with no regulator??? Don't even want to think about the possibilities of that.

[settingsteel]

I'm from the "used 10 years and never had a problem" group. I've been shooting farters for well over 10 years and never had a problem with them...period. My 970 cyrannos just had O-rings replaced after 4 years of use. After each dive I rinse the barrel and handle/trig area with water and store barrel end down. I agree with you on the repair part, true some LDS won't touch them but quite a bit of 411 has been posted here in reference to same. I agree with most of your points on band, but will add maint of both are close to the same, IMPO.

[AlexF]

I agree with stingsteel, it's personal preference. They both work very well, although you have the bad luck to receive a bad gun.

One thing that stands out for me is that after using my band guns for some years now, I can't hit a ting with the pneumatic. A year ago I went diving for small fish in a estuary and decided to take the pneumatic, well I shot about 10 times and never hit a single fish.

Took the band gun again and didn't miss a shot.

[slingshaft]

Hey AlexF, how did you test shooting the guns with coconuts?

[AlexF]

I pumped all the guns to the same pressure with a scuba tank got into the pool and took some dried coconuts with me and tied them with a string to a weight and just shot them.

The penetration with the Cyrano 750, just as it comes out of the box and that of the gun with the Mamba kit was identical. I tried to keep everything constant, so the results were very comparable. If I remember correctly, I was shooting at less than 2 meters from the coco.

I then tried the band guns and increased the distance to something like 3 or 3.5 meters and the shaft went all the way through the coco while the pneumatics just pinched the husk.

I did the tests a while ago and unfortunately didn't take pictures of the whole thing.