No Fish Stew

[SurfnSpear]

Huw, Magpie puts it effectively. My issue with the rookery is that my only cover is 50-60yrds away at about 25° incline and I guess I really need to try the headshot at that range everytime.
Hence the Rapid Ben Taylored with THESE doing about 26ft/lb gives me about 70 shots with no power curve (400cc bottle) and a lovely flatish trajectory. Perfect for that niche of shooting where no cartridge should ever go...
And you are both right about how tough they are. I have used just this week some Gamebore 12gauge Clear Pigeon 30g No.6 on two rooks which fell straight out the sky onto the other side of the brook and when I got over to check for them, they were gone. They were only about 30yrds up as I know the height of the trees!!!
Woodies are my bass for winter

[foxfish]

I am very interested in all types of guns, spear guns, firearms & air guns but save my posting for other forums. I had no intent in joining this thread however I would like to say I find no appeal in wounding any creature. I have no objection to you guys killing whatever is legal but please try not to mention shooting animals that are out of range for the weapon you are using. Sorry if I sound negative but to post such things on an open forum is asking for trouble.
Magpie is quite write in what he says - accuracy is the be all & end all with low powered guns such as air riffles. Even a 30ftlbs recoil less precharged air gun has only a third of the power of a 22 rimfire! The lightweight pellet can be effected by even the slightest crosswind. If you can hit a coin at 40mts time after time in the field with a air gun you could win a fortune in field target comps.
Having said that, if you have a FAC you might as well make the use of it! I have shot, using a bench rest, 20mm 10 shot groups with 30ftlb precharged guns at 50mts in very still conditions.
Dont mean to upset anyone it is just that I have experienced other forums having to deal with all sorts of animal rights nutters causing untold trouble!

[Magpie]

Now with one of these: Quackenbush Air Guns
the target area opens up a bit

.50 cal, 800fps, trajectory must be nigh on brick like but would hit rather hard for an air rifle!

[Huw]

First off may I just apologise for my second post, which now reading back through is obviously unclear, and could easily be interpreted ambiguously.

When I wrote...

I have had some take a pellet to the brainbox... fall... hit the ground... shake themselves off... then fly a lap of the fields and then land right back again

these incidents were all well within both comfortable range and capability of the 11.9ftlbs air rifle, as with the rookery in question, my hide is set up just over 20yards away from any possible target. My point that I was trying to raise was that a .22rf cannot and should not ever be fired up into a treetop, and that the 12ftlbs legal limit on a standard air rifle, is not always sufficient for a clean humane kill of the quarry in question.

please try not to mention shooting animals that are out of range for the weapon you are using

Not once did I mention actually shooting an animal out of range, merely posed a question of how far one could expect an air pellet from an FAC air rifle to effectively stop its target. In fact I even stated that I do not like pushing shots out further than 35yards, with 40 yards being an absolute ultimatum.

I am fully aware of what a specialised piece of kit an air rifle actually is, and surfnspear put it brilliantly saying that his was

Perfect for that niche of shooting where no cartridge should ever go...

I even included in my initial post that the reason I took the air rifle out instead of the 12g was in fact due to the lack of wind on the day, and for the record it only comes out of the cabinet on target days, or when the weather was as it was a few days ago... still.

The thing is Huw you may up the power of your rifle but the range you can effectively use it over is limited by your accuracy, not its power. Remember the target area for an airirfle on woodies or rabbits is about the size of a 50p, no more. If you can hit that you're not going to stop them, no matter how high crank it up

Magpie, regarding this issue of accuracy (which I fully recognise and appreciate) I have to clarify that, I have no trouble what so ever in hitting the kill zone on woodies, rabbits crows rooks etc. and have regularly achieved 20mm 8 shot groups at 30yards whilst target shooting or zeroing. However, when it comes to rooks, I maintain that 12ftlbs in the killzone within a sensible range is not always enough to achieve a fast clean humane dispatch.


Finally to conclude I feel that I must clarify to any other readers that from the remark of

I would like to say I find no appeal in wounding any creature

perhaps some could draw the conclusion that this infers that perhaps some of us do indeed find an appeal in wounding an animal, and this is a point that I not only defiantly dispute, but would also find absolutely appalling, and in no way acceptable in any form or manner.


I once again apologise for any unclear points or explanations that may have arisen in any of my original posts, and wish to express both my ultimate respect for all nature as well as the knowledge of my equipments - and my own personal limitations.

Huw.

[Magpie]

No apology needed mate, no one thought you were anything but humane in your approach.

Its just the way the world is these days you need to be pretty careful with how you describe any activity related to shooting and it does no harm to explain to anyone else reading the thought processes behind the hunting we do.

[spearheads]

I do a bit riffle hunting but i prefer to shoot field target for SWEFTA.
I use a air arms s400 .177 which was originally a s410 in .22, i got it seriously customised by nick jenkinson 3 times world champ.

I have a few more precharged air riffles and a s200 like huw.
As for shot guns i do a bit of clay shooting with a 12 gauge.
Fac air riffles i have shot a few of them but i dont like them, i like shooting rim fires but at the end of the day a recoil less air riffle is fun to shoot all day.

[Mr. X]

Nice gun Huw - looks pretty fancy.

It's funny, I've been thinking about pigeon recently. I have only ever tried it once and then only a mouthful,a long time ago. I inherited an airgun last year (pity about the woodworm!) but haven't picked up any pellets yet. There are pigeons & doves nesting in our garden, which I wouldn't normally bother, but they had a lot of offspring last year. Pigeons were particularly bountiful round here last year -- a real nuisance, flying into car windscreens all over the place. There were a lot of rabbits too. Anyway, I thought I'd wait until the pigeons started tucking into our vegetable patch -- but they never did, they actually fed on insects in the rough ground next to it, which was helpful. Then most left.

BTW I seem to recall those soft, flat head, long skirted, target pellets work better than normal pellets. They make a good seal and seem to fly straight & pack more oomph.

Originally Posted by Huw

Before anyone asks... the 12g wont sort them out... one shot and there gone for the day onto the next farm, and back the next morning!!!

Our pigeons, doves & rooks are super-sensitive to noises. Firing the airgun (just putting some paper through the barrel to try it out) or twanging a bow string is enough to send the lot 2 fields away. I guess that's how they survived so long.

Originally Posted by podge

Optional extras while preparing the pigeon-
One 8 year old daughter shouting dad that’s horrible and one 6 year old son shouting can I have a wing to chase Kayleigh (daughter) with.

Talk about fancy ingredients!

[Magpie]

Flat headed pellets are used for target shooting solely because they punch a nice round hole in the paper target. They do not shoot any more powerfully or accurately than dome headed pellets, in fact they will lose more power compared to domes the further away your target is due to the reduced aerodynamic efficiency.

Mate, if you rifle is a spring gun, DO NOT fire it with just bits of paper in the barrel, you'll bugger it right up. You can dry fire pneumatic guns but not spring powered ones. The resistance of a pellet in the barrel damps the piston so it doesn't slam into the end of its chamber.

Here's a quick pic of my main rifles:

[spearheads]

nice guns
My next gun is a air arms ev2
What scope are you using , do you shoot comps or not.

[Spaniard]

Originally Posted by Magpie

Flat headed pellets are used for target shooting solely because they punch a nice round hole in the paper target. They do not shoot any more powerfully or accurately than dome headed pellets, in fact they will lose more power compared to domes the further away your target is due to the reduced aerodynamic efficiency.

Mate, if you rifle is a spring gun, DO NOT fire it with just bits of paper in the barrel, you'll bugger it right up. You can dry fire pneumatic guns but not spring powered ones. The resistance of a pellet in the barrel damps the piston so it doesn't slam into the end of its chamber.

Here's a quick pic of my main rifles:

Is the top gun the HW100? I am tempted and have picked one up in local gunshop; i've been told that they are one of the better multi-shots?

[Magpie]

The scope on the HW is a Simmons Whitetail Classic 6-20x50. Its a great scope, very crisp, and good for hunting rangefinding. No, I don't shoot comps, there isn't any over here!

Yes, it is an HW100, one of the original ones, not the updated version with the better silencer (hence the addition!). Its a lovely gun, you can feel how well engineered it is when cyling the action. I'm sure you'd find lighter, but the extra weight aids stability.

EV2 eh, now thats is a serious air rifle for FT. I love all the little gubbins you can bolt to them.

[deep thinker]

I have a 20 year old spring powered airgun I got when I was 5 . For pigeons and such I use a sharp tiped hunting pellet. It can still knock a pigean flat on 20m and has never been serviced or the spring replaced, allthough I do think it will need one in the near future. I didnt even know you get multi shot phneumatic pellet guns... I love mine though and will keep it in the family since it still shoots straight and accurate as an arrow

[spearheads]

At my club were i shot nick J runs it , so he is always bringing up new air riffles i saw the ev2 before it was in shops.
He designs air riffles for air arms.
The evt is very well balanced and is amazingly accurate. I only have one springer which is a webley stingwray its in 22. so i rarely use it , also i dont really like springer's due to the recoil.
flat head pellets deliver more power to a target because they dont overpenetrate like a pointed pellet so all the power is delivered to the target. I use them for pigeons at close range.
The pellets i stick with are air arms ft you cant beat them.

The only thing i dont like about the evt is its a bit star wars looking, i like a wooded stock and a deep blueing also a walnut stock is very cool.

[Spiderman]

Originally Posted by Magpie

Flat headed pellets are used for target shooting solely because they punch a nice round hole in the paper target. They do not shoot any more powerfully or accurately than dome headed pellets, in fact they will lose more power compared to domes the further away your target is due to the reduced aerodynamic efficiency.

After some initial experiments with pointed and domed pellets I always used flat headed .22 pellets for hunting. I found that every rabbit, pigeon, pheasant or rook hit in the head at 30m with one of these ended up in the bag. Flat may not be the most aerodynamic shape but they are easy to manufacture consistently and they transfer all their energy into the target rather than penetrating through.

[Magpie]

For short to medium ranges, yes, a flat head will "hit harder", and of course there are hollow points which are even more effective. One thing to be aware of with flat heads is they are often, though not always, lighter than domes. Thats because they are mostly target pellets so a flatter trajectory is preferred, but because of the lack of weight they do lose power more quickly as well.

At the end of the day for airrifle hunting its all about accuracy, so you should use whichever pellet groups the best in your rifle. For me thats H&N FTT's.