Can't seem to hold big white seabass

[Spinal Tap]

Kelp Monkey wrote: "I saw some other spearos getting ready on the beach. "

You saw me and my buddy the Mangler. I'm the Asian guy.

Man! We were in the same spot but you shot at a big ol' WSB and I just had a nice swim.

We saw the seal carcass too, it was bloated and had bird turd all over the top which helped ease our concern. I started to get that sickly feeling because I swallowed a big gulp of water down current from that thing before I saw it.

I went out today from 11am-7pm and didn't see anyting over 5lbs. I'd like to get one more WSB before the water gets really warm.

P.S I sent you an email.

[Spearooo]

a 54 biller will have alot more power than a 42. but depending on viz the 54 might not be practical. Again a 120 or 110 rail gun is also a good choice depending on your local viz and weathe ror not you close quarter hunt. but a rabbi or RA in the 1m+ range is capable of taking the largest of fish with one band if the shot is selected well..... But a shot from above is ggod in my opion just try to put a good angle on it Ie not just straight down but angled forward and downward to the broadside. A thicker longer shaft with a slim tip will solve your problems. Using a gun thats too small is the #1 mistake made by bigginer hunters.. .
GOod luck..and be safe
Id love to land a WSB some day

[Cingene]

I was reading up on the WSB thing and them's are coming northward up to Monterey. Maybe I'll see one of these beauties one of these days.

[KelpMonkey]

I went to James Joseph dive shop yesterday for the first time. I’m so glad a place like that exists in San Diego, I could finally see and touch at all the stuff I’ve only seen on the internet before. Mark, the resident spearo was apparently off in Mexico, but his mother was there was very friendly and helpful. I will definitely be returning ...Preferably with a wheelbarrow full of cash.
I think I will end up building my own aluminum railgun to save money. I have one friend who's a machinist and another who can weld.
The rest of the day my dive buddy and I spent at Birch aquarium in La Jolla, or as we came to think of it, “the strip club for spearfishermen”. Look but don’t touch, boys.

[icarus pacific]

Yep, the 'Boydster is correct.

The thing with WSB is that once you see them which is an art unto itself, the real work begins. They're a very, very soft fleshed fish, so unless you tap them in the gills, you need to have your shaft go all the way through to the point that your slip tip will seperate and leave the fish to either fight against the wire holding the tip to the shaft and/or it wraps itself in the kelp and then you only have to worry that the thing will be able to leverage itself against the kelp and tear off, or you'll be so friggin' tired with going all over Hell and breakfast cutting it free that you take a puke.

Your situation is screaming for a purpose built gun. A Biller or a JBL or another generic gun will be able to bring these things back to the beach but you'll most often just ding 'em and off they go to die. Not smooth.

If you decide not to go and drop the ducats for a Riffe No Kai Oi or an Island, at least do this- add a band and get a slip tip for your Biller and I'm talking one with a single barb that will allow the thing to pierce the fish clear to the other side, and then deploy. The Riffe Ice Pick is a proven though heavy tool that repeatedly gets the job done. If you really wanna show 'em, get an Alexander or a Wong, or a Kitto. These things are pieces of brutal art and well worth the cost, especially in terms of fish kept.

No Cingene, the furthest North I've seen WSB is in Santa Cruz and then you have to be really good, really local and really lucky. They show occasionally in Monterey but by and large, the West end of San Miguel Island off Pt Conception is about it as far as I've seen them with any degree of habit. I have it on my best info that they are both above Refugio and off Catalina right now.

And as to a euro gun, yeah. You could use a Euro and a few real good/successful guys do.

[ajwaverider]

I think your tip may be your main problem.Rock tips are ok for smaller fish or with powerful guns . You should get a hawaii or
tahatian shaft and that will help you land a few of those wsb.
Maybe work on your aspetto.

[peskydor]

Kelp,
You have received some good advice. Know this, a sliptip will not deploy in a White Seabass unless it is properly designed. Do NOT use a single fluke, it will deflect the tragectory of the shaft. The two flukes must be PARALLEL to the string hole. This contradicts common sense but I assure you it is correct. Unless the sliptip 'adapter' is tapered, like Riffe, the adapter will cause suction and the sliptip will not deploy (toggle). Do NOT use cable on the tip. The white seabass is very soft and cable will tear. Tie your sliptip to a slide ring with soft 1/8" nylon. Tie a loop of this line to the tip with a bowline knot. Slip a ring onto the loop beforehand which can be used to remove the fish. (reverse the tip and capture with ring). If the adapter and tip are not tapered, drill a small hole in the tip so as to penetrate the drilled cavity inside the tip. This will eliminate suction and allow the tip to deploy. In this case be aware that a 5/16 drilled tip will fit directly onto a Biller shaft but a ring must be soldered to the shaft to hold the sliptip's slide ring. I assure you that this type of tip will hold the wsb. I know and have been companion and confident to some of the legends. This design, which I have recommended to you, represents the efforts of men like Wally Potts. Wally used tapered shafts (adapters) but his friend Wes Andrew found that the drilled tip works equally well. I have used every type of tip imaginable and I recommend this for wsb.

Dump the 42 inch gun and find the dough to purchase a Biller 56 with reel. Good luck on holding a WSB without a
reel. A light touch is necessary to hold this fish regardless of tip.

Get the Biller gun with enclosed grip. This model series, in existence now for ten years, has much stronger components than other, older models, especially those made in Australia which are junk. Check EBAY if you are short of funds.
Pesky

[peskydor]

Kelp,
The Biller 'freeshaft' can be modified to hold these fish. If you decide to go this route I will explain.
Pesky.

[peskydor]

Monkey,
I've finished reading ALL the posts. Do NOT build a 'rail gun' or any other nonsense. Wait a few years. For now, the Biller gun will do anything that a Riffe or other high end gun will do which has similar traction (stretch). Keep your small gun and also get a 56" Biller (have they changed it to 54"?). If you can manage it, get the teak model. It is more accurate than mahogany when heavy rubber is used.Look, I have to take seriously anyone who can manage to whack several whites in one day, and a novice at that. You need to start looking at the details of your weaponry. That is why I have taken the trouble to explain exactly how a sliptip is designed. Start taking those baby steps NOW. Learn to make your own sliptips.The fact that the fish pulled free is irrelevant at this point. What is relevant is that it is possible that you are one of the rare 'naturals' who can handle himself in the water. Maybe you were floating on the surface and took a sucker shot. I don't know but what is important is that you didn't spook the whites and that you hit them with a 44" gun, something very difficult to do. I will mail you drawings of a sliptip and rigging if you decide to do this. Dimensions of the hex steel, length, drill hole sizes and location, etc. If you can't find the steel, PM me and I'll send some. Anyone with a grinder and hand tools can do the work. The only machine work involves having a machinist pre drill the 3/8 stainless hex stock to 5/16. The rest you can do with a ceramic tile file (carbide file), regular file, grinder and hand drill.

[KelpMonkey]

Peskydor-
Thanks, I appreciate your feedback. Yes I would love if you could send me the slip tip drawings, it is something I definitely plan to do. Well as far as me being a “natural”, I don’t know... maybe it has something to do with my mom repeatedly tossing me in the ocean as a toddler... More likely I’ve just been overcautious with the stalking. I read “Last of the Blue Water Hunters” when I was about 15, (now 27) and I seem to remember the wsb portrayed as rare as Sasquatch and spooking at anything, no matter how small. So when I actually began seeing them recently, I would just freeze (at first from surprise), and then use the slowest movements of a fin possible to edge closer. I guess it works. And to be quite honest the big one I began the thread about was indeed a “sucker shot” from the surface. I had been sitting motionless on the kelp surface for a few minutes, watching smaller wsb, and he cruised right under me like a submarine. Man, it would have been a perfect ambush if I had just had the right gear. But I did manage to land a decent size one previously with “grunting”. I had spooked it and it was headed away from me, and I thought “what the hell?” and began making belching noises in the back of my throat. Whattya know, instantly this fish flips a 180 and comes right back at me, and I get a perfect shot. May have been a coincidence, but it definitely didn’t hurt.
If I could ask, what do you think of the Rob Allen guns? They’re in my price range and have been recommended to me; I was thinking of getting a 120 or 130 and adapting the shaft for a slip-tip.

[peskydor]

Yes, grunting is an old trick. I didn't realize that anybody else knew about it but a lot of years have passed since I was a 'great white hunter', LOL.

PM your address and I'll sketch the tip as well as I can., and send the sketches.

I've heard that the Allen gun is a good piece but have never used one, personally. The Biller gun is hard to beat for all around use. It is fast loading and very 'instinctive' to aim and fire. It is extremely accurate. I use the 54 to shoot Spanish mackeral and king mackeral, and that ain't easy. I used to be a dealer for Riffe and Biller and am very familiar with those guns. I can sell you a new Baja or Island, very cheap at half retail. I also have a (used) Biller 54 teak. Very good condition. Anyway, get me the shipping address for the drawings.

Pesky

[LaJollaFreedvr]

the RA guns are excellent, i picked one up from mark at J&J and it is an amazing gun (130cm)...throw a floatline on it with no float and two bands and youre ready to start slaying those WSB and yellowtail...this gun has so much power its ridiculous and it is very accurate, as well as affordable...still have a place in my heart for the riffes though, cant go wrong with those

[peskydor]

I looked at a website which featured the 'railgun' by Allen. There were enlarged photos and a comprehensive description. I don't know, fellas. They are using a semi closed tube which they call a 'rail' for purposes of preventing the skinny shaft from flexing on the way down the barrel. The big, home made, rail guns use the tube to prevent the shaft from skittering under tremendous power that these guns use. As I see it, the Allen gun does not use any particular technology that would give an advantage. It is a rather light weight aluminum gun that would buck and shift unless the arrow is extremely light. Hence, the need to control the flight path. American, 'tree trunk' guns do this with mass. The teak barrels have very high intertia and thicker, stiff 17-4 SS shafts. Also, most of them have a proper butt and cocking stock to distribute load forces on the gut. I'll keep an open mind but sofar this Allen gun just looks to be a variation on the old European guns.

[dave]

The RA IS a beefed up eurogun, that is the whole point!. The thinner tahitian spear holds much better than the thicker shafts with screw on heads in Billers etc, and causes much less tearing on penetration. I have always found it very interesting that WSB are regarded as incredibly soft fleshed, whilst Mulloway and Dagga salmon, which are basically the same fish are not. Could this difference be due to the guns which are normally used to shoot them? (ie heavy American guns for WSB, and lighter Euro type guns for the Mulloway and Dagga)
cheers
dave

[peskydor]

No, there is no truth in that. The observation that the white sea bass is 'soft fleshed' is valid. I cannot comment on your inappropriate comparisons dealing with different species and diver anecdotes..

You need to be careful in your generalizations about US divers. This is a big country encompassing many varied diving environments. I will agree that a properly modified 'Tahitian' style shaft is effective. That is due to two factors.: the small diameter of the sharp end of the stick and the large wing (Riffe calls it a 'flopper'). I've used these extensively on my Biller gun and found them to be effective for fish up to 20 pounds or thereabouts. For larger fish I still prefer the slip tip (my design). I've taken many whites this way. For tropical diving, shooting snappers, mackeral, small groupers iup to 3 feet long, the Tahitian (called 'freeshaft') with tethering line works well; it is fast and will hold well (and release well) if modified by adding a tensioner and slide ring to the head. I see no advantage in beefing up what is essentially an Arbalette, even if called a 'rail gun' for marketing purposes.

My 'Tahitian' gun is a Biller LIMITED, 54. Not many people have ever seen one of these. Mine has been modified. Originally, the old LIMITED did not include a line release, just a clip. I took a Biller freeshaft and welded a sharkfin to the shaft and this is what holds the line. When the shaft is released so is the line. I use the light weight biller reel with stiff tuna line since my quarry are not so large when using this gun. There are two thick Riffe rubber bands with my custom stainless wire wishbones. The shaft notches are wopped out and
smoothed for seating the thick wishbones. The shaft tip has been modified to cause the wing to spring out when it strikes the fish, and to cancel any imbalance in flight caused by having only one wing. The ring which clamps the flopper does this by creating a small turbulence and breaking the offset created by laminar flow over the wing. This gun shoots better than any arbalette ever made and, I suspect, as good or better than an Allen gun. I certainly wouldn't trade a teak sharpshooter for an aluminum tube gun. A couple years ago, I landed, with this Biller gun, a Cerro Mackeral three feet long which I believe would have been a world record if registered.