European Union Consultation – Including ban on use of projectiles .

[huntfish]

No responce from DEFRA either !

[MrCoombe]

Ok, was starting to be annoyed by lack of response from Matthew Taylor, but a letter came through today from the House of Commons essentially said he'd had a word with the minister and would would keep me/us posted, also got an email from Steve Chamberlin a local councillor whiich read
"Mr Coombe
I am sorry for the delay in replying - i am heavily involved as a member
of the One Cornwall Implementation Executive and seem to have very
little time for anything else theses days! You have my full support,
for what it is worth. However, I should point out that I am hardly a
fan of the aggressive eco movement which seems to be forcing many issues
on the population regardless of reaction. I do believe that livelihoods
should come first and I would support any attempt to, for example,
remove the right to commercially fish for scallops, or oysters for that
mater. Good luck with your campaign.
Regards
Steve Chamberlain"

not sure i he's grasped the point entirely but at least he's aware somethings up

[SurfnSpear]

Hi all, I think it has certainly hit the commissions command bunker...


> Subject: RE: Letter from your constituent
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 15:46:14 +0200
> From: neil.parish@europarl.europa.eu
> To:
>
> Dear Mr ,
>
> Thank you for your e-mail regarding the EU potential ban on
> spearfishing.
>
> It seems you are not alone in fearing the possible implications of
> Article 31 - many consituents have written to me regarding the same
> issue. However, on contacting the Commission's department for Fisheries
> and Maritime Affairs (DG MARE) regarding the proposed changed to the
> Technical Conservation Regulations, the following reply was received:
>
> "The COM tried to prepare a new simplified and clarified proposal on
> technical measures, in the structure and also in articles. On your point
> (spear fishing), we must check on what is a projectile, but anyway we
> can confirm you that it is not the intention of the Commission to
> prohibit recreational spear fishing. If not clear the article concerned
> will be corrected later during the discussions."
>
> Thus it seems you have nothing to fear from the proposals. I hope this
> puts your mind at rest.
>
> Yours sincerely,
>
> Neil Parish MEP

[Pastor]

Now that is encouraging news

[Padaxes]

Thats what I was hoping for tbh. Good news indeed!

[KWM]

Its about time they started to acknowledge our concerns.

well done.

regards kev

[turunc2006]

Yes it is good news to hear, but let's keep up the pressure anyway until we actually see it confirmed i.e. enshrined in concrete in a corrected proposal 2008/0324.

It does seem what I suspected all along i.e. that the clerical 'simplification' was too severe and didn't actually intend to ban us. (In my previous IT job, I used to suffer a lot from this from technical authors who didn't fully understand the area they used to update the documentation for. As a result they would often choose a form of wording that included or excluded situations which were simply wrong.)

Anyway I've just sent off my objection to my 9 local MEPs in the North West, my local MP and DEFRA. It includes suggested ways and areas in the proposal which should be suitably changed.

[Mr. X]

Sounds like an unintended consequence of merging the two old articles. Two simple remedies spring to mind, either or both of which should lead to a happy outcome:

1. Keep the new Article 12 but remove all reference to projectiles.

2. Specifically add spear fishing and rod fishing (cast lures, etc.) to the list of exceptions that already exists at the back of the document.

I like both of these because #1 will further simplify the law (their aim) and would allow the sale of speared fish (bringing it sensibly in line with rod caught fish). Most would never sell speared fish and it's not something I particularly hanker after but the current rule seems an unnecessary complication & restriction on personal freedoms (if there is a health issue, that would be different). Spearing and rod fishng should be treated the same IMHO.

I like #2 because it would enshrine in law the normality of spear fishing and sea angling, including the right to spear fish and cast lures/bait. Pretty basic rights but we've already seen how easy it is to get scribbled out of existance.

246 signatures on the petition

[turunc2006]

Excellent that. I've just proposed doing the same things in my objection e-mail.

Originally Posted by Mr. X

Sounds like an unintended consequence of merging the two old articles. Two simple remedies spring to mind, either or both of which should lead to a happy outcome:

1. Keep the new Article 12 but remove all reference to projectiles.

2. Specifically add spear fishing and rod fishing (cast lures, etc.) to the list of exceptions that already exists at the back of the document.

I like both of these because #1 will further simplify the law (their aim) and would allow the sale of speared fish (bringing it sensibly in line with rod caught fish). Most would never sell speared fish and it's not something I particularly hanker after but the current rule seems an unnecessary complication & restriction on personal freedoms (if there is a health issue, that would be different). Spearing and rod fishng should be treated the same IMHO.

I like #2 because it would enshrine in law the normality of spear fishing and sea angling, including the right to spear fish and cast lures/bait. Pretty basic rights but we've already seen how easy it is to get scribbled out of existance.

246 signatures on the petition

[James T]

I think it is a scary illustration of how easy it is to lose civil liberties by being complacent. If this hadn't been raised by the starter of this thread I don't know how much energy would have gone into defending our spearfishing in the UK. The state is getting too big in this country/Europe IMHO

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by SurfnSpear

Hi all, I think it has certainly hit the commissions command bunker...


> Subject: RE: Letter from your constituent
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 15:46:14 +0200
> From: neil.parish@europarl.europa.eu
> To:
>
> Dear Mr ,
>
> Thank you for your e-mail regarding the EU potential ban on
> spearfishing.
>...
> Thus it seems you have nothing to fear from the proposals. I hope this
> puts your mind at rest.
>
> Yours sincerely,
>
> Neil Parish MEP

I'm afraid I don't share Neil's optimism about having "nothing to fear". Despite best intentions, if the proposal is not changed, it is open to interpretation and reinterpretation in the future. (As mentioned above, spearing and angling should be specifically excluded from these restrictions and the whole projectile text should be removed. This would simplify the document and avoid this confusion.)

[turunc2006]

They probably won't completely remove all reference to methods using projectile since as has been said earlier in this thread, they were probably thinking about addressing commercial harpoon fishing.

Putting recreational spearfishing in the Excepted Activities (i.e. excepted from the regulation) would be fine.

[gutshot]

Originally Posted by Mr. X

I like both of these because #1 will further simplify the law (their aim) and would allow the sale of speared fish (bringing it sensibly in line with rod caught fish).

Sorry Mr X but i kind of like it how it is at the mo with the ban on sale of speared fish. Most of the time when i dive i could come out with an armfull of fish but only take one for the plate then i get very choosy about what else i take on the same day. Years back in the Med the spearfishermen got a very bad press for killing off the reefs because they were seen coming out of the water with huge amounts of fish which they sold. Now i am not starting a new thing about this. Who knows if it is true or not BUT they gave then sport a bad name (possibly due to the ill informed dorks that saw them) which we still suffer from! Is this partly why we could be outlawed from spreaing now? We are trying to convince everyone how eco friendly spearing is but that could change if we get an army of commercial spearfishermen suddenly hitting the reefs. Think of all the 38cm fish you could take! If it was just for your dinner plate you let them go by and wait for something bigger. Put a price tag on it and its fair game. We all know they are not big enough to have spawned but if your only income was fish would they let them go and wait for something 42cm or bigger? I think not!

And before anyone starts, last aug when spearflap and myself got that bumper catch or 15 or so bass. Everyone of them was kept and eaten fresh or frozen but not given away. Selffish i know but what the hell, I like bass too much!

Be gentle with your response, i just dont want to risk our love of spearing if we manage to get past this shite now!

[devondave]

Think I have to agree with gutshot on that one , if people see £10 notes swimming around instead of "not worth shooting " schoolies , how many would be left ? To be honest I gave up angling for spearing 'cos I wanted to catch more fish , I don't see the two sports are equal ( maybe I was just a crap angler )

[kmo]

Are amateur anglers allowed to sell fish in the EU? I would have thought that they would require an expensive commercial license, and that commercial spearos would require the same thing ?

If you get caught selling fish here in Aus you can say goodbye to your car, boat, dive gear, and many thousands of dollars.

Commercial spearing would still be the most ecologically friendly method of harvesting with zero bycatch, the only problem being that they would be restricted to the coastal fringe.

Good luck fighting this poorly written legislation!