European Union Consultation – Including ban on use of projectiles .

[Mr. X]

The petition deadline passed on the September 23rd, 316 votes total. Quite good considering. I think we picked up a few signatures from the Countryside Alliance & Field Magazine. We are supposed to get a ministerial response, as there were more than 200 signatures. Apparently there will be a reshuffle in the next few weeks - it'd be good a get a response from the new minister rather than the old, if it changes.

[Mr. X]

Just read that Hilary Benn remains the minister in charge of DEFRA after today's reshuffle. His pa (nepotism in the Labour ranks? shock, horror) would not have shirked the opportunity to respond with his views. Look forward to reading the response.

[sunfish]

Dear David,

Thank you for your email, which Caroline has asked me to respond to on her behalf. The Green Party of England and Wales does have very clear policy on hunting, as you are aware. However, we also recognise that there is a need for special consideration with regard to angling. As a result, in 2005 Green Party conference adopted the following record of policy statement:

1. The Green Party is aware of the popularity of angling as a recreational activity and notes that many anglers combine their interest with a desire to protect the environment. The Party is aware that responsible anglers are also concerned about the bad practices of others and would also wish to see these stopped. This policy addresses the concern of many people that irresponsible anglers are causing undue damage to waterways and surrounding areas and also cause undue harm and suffering to wildlife through careless or uncaring behaviour. It is accepted that this is not always intentional but we trust the following will be accepted as being consistent with a caring society whose aims include environmental sustainability and preservation of natural habitats.

2. The Green Party accepts the finding of the Medway Report that fish do feel pain and will seek to end the practice known as ‘live baiting’ as soon as possible. It will also encourage more awareness of this fact and thus better handling of fish that are taken out of the water. It also hopes that with great awareness people may better understand the pain caused to fish by many current angling practices.

3, The Green Party notes the (often fatal) injury caused to other wildlife by discarding lead shot/weights and will make the use of any lead in angling illegal.

4. The Green Party notes the declining use of barbed hooks and double and triple hooks because of the damage caused to fish, and will make the use of these illegal.

5. The Green Party is concerned about the damage caused to wildlife by carelessly discarded fishing tackle and the costs involved in cleaning it up. To reduce and, it is hoped, eradicate this, the Party will launch a campaign to raise awareness and encourage good practice among anglers. The campaign should be conducted via advertising in angling journals, posters, advertisements on TV, radio and newspapers and through angling clubs. The campaign will be paid for from a minimum of 5% of the revenue raised by the environment agency on fishing licences. It is hoped that producers of angling programmes on television will also play their part in raising awareness for the common good.

6. An accreditation scheme for angling clubs will be introduced, a part of which will call upon them to encourage and instill good conduct among anglers.

7. A 10-point Code of Conduct for Anglers will be drawn up after discussion with interested parties (including angling clubs and associations, environmentalists and the Environmental Agency) that can be displayed on angling licenses. The Anglers’ Code of Conduct will also be prominently displayed in other appropriate places, including accredited angling clubs. It is recognised that the National Angling Alliance (NAA) has drawn up an excellent Code of Conduct for Coarse Anglers (Oct. 2002), which can be used as the basis for this.

I hope that clarifies matters for you. The Green Party also advocates measures to encourage vegetarian and vegan diets and to phase out intensive farming, including fish farming.

Kind regards,
Cath.

Cath Miller
Constituency Coordinator and Researcher
Office of Dr Caroline Lucas
Green Party MEP for SE England
Suite 58, The Hop Exchange
24 Southwark Street
London SE1 1TY

Tel: 020 7407 6281
Email: carolinelucas@greenmeps.org.uk
www.carolinelucasmep.org.uk

Hi all, here is the reply I got from Caroline Lucas' office. It seems to me that the English greens are run by people with an anti fieldsports agenda and that they want to ban angling but are afraid to, as they'd lose votes.
I think someone should write letters to the angling press so anglers can stop voting for them or at least try to influence the choice of green representatives.
Could be good to get discussion going in the angling papers if only so people know what the greens plan to do.

[Mr. X]

Wow, what a bunch of scary wackos The following bits are my favs (what are yours?):

Originally Posted by sunfish

...
3, The Green Party notes the (often fatal) injury caused to other wildlife by discarding lead shot/weights and will make the use of any lead in angling illegal.

4. The Green Party notes the declining use of barbed hooks and double and triple hooks because of the damage caused to fish, and will make the use of these illegal.

5. The Green Party is concerned about the damage caused to wildlife by carelessly discarded fishing tackle and the costs involved in cleaning it up. To reduce and, it is hoped, eradicate this, the Party will launch a campaign to raise awareness and encourage good practice among

Of course fish feel pain, that's how animals avoid harm. I think most predatory fish (all sea fish are predators to some extent - causing pain to other creatures, how unfeeling of them!) don't have sensitive mouths because they eat spiney things like other fish & crustaceans. Case in point, Miles's tale of the same fish being caught 3 times in one session by anglers on his boat.

Our half oz/1oz/2oz/3oz/...10oz ledger/sea weights do no harm Lead split shot has been banned in most places for some time & wildfowlers have been using nickel shot for yonks. Will they be banning SCUBA diving, freediving & church roofs too?! Need to start a campaign for real lead!

Look what happens when you put people in big cities with no hunting, they start stabbing & kicking each other to death.

"Triple hooks" - presumably they mean treble hooks. Well that wipes out all lure fishing. Bet Veals and all the tackle shops will be chuffed to hear that - NOT.

The Greens have obviously been infiltrated by the some of the more extreme elements of the animal rights lobby. Oh no, I almost forgot, their extreme elements are VERY EXTREME, digging up dead relatives and such. Sick people.

Well, it makes the choice when voting easier anyway! (Just read that Barrick Obama was a spearo in HawaiiCool dude! Now we just need to get him & Palin on the same ticket).

[Padaxes]

LOL Palin shouldnt be near any kind of public office, not by a country mile.



in other news I wrote to the greens about their response posted above and got this reply

Dear Toby,

Thank you for your email, which Caroline has asked me to respond to on her behalf. She was lobbied extensively about the EU’s plans to ban the use of spears in fishing by individuals involved in recreational spearfishing, hence her position. She is grateful that you have taken the time to bring her attention to some of the wider arguments in favour of spearfishing and will certainly look into this further before voting on the proposals.

Kind regards,
Cath.

Cath Miller
Constituency Coordinator and Researcher
Office of Dr Caroline Lucas
Green Party MEP for SE England
Suite 58, The Hop Exchange
24 Southwark Street
London SE1 1TY

I wonder are these recreational spearfishermen you/us lot ? or are there people out there that spear fish that they dont eat ?

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by Padaxes

LOL Palin shouldnt be near any kind of public office, not by a country mile.
...
I wonder are these recreational spearfishermen you/us lot ? or are there people out there that spear fish that they dont eat ?

I think Palin has a sort of charm, like a cross between a playboy pin-up, Church Lady (from SNL) and Robert DeNiro in the Deer Hunter.

If you think the Greens wouldn't ban all hunting, then you are naive. Whether you eat it or not, they'll consider it recreational. Another glaring clue is their goal of making us all vegans.

[Padaxes]

Well maybe I am niave but they did seem to make a clear distinction between recreational spear fishing and hunting for food.

As for Palin she terrifies me lol.

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by Padaxes

Well maybe I am niave but they did seem to make a clear distinction between recreational spear fishing and hunting for food.

They clearly say they're are against hunting. They concede angling at the moment only because it is Britains biggest participation sport (3million+)-- too many votes at stake. They would ban it if they could, and once they ban everything else they would certainly ban angling too, as they'd be no other hunters left to lend support (after all, some feel that "catch & return" is more cruel than hunting for food, needlessly tormenting wild creatures).

Recreational is used here used to mean non-commercial fishing (& perhaps professional vermin control -- I see they often use hockey sticks to kill rats in London, real humane), rather than food/sport - at least that's how it reads to me. I only spear for food & only know of people spearing for food. If folk spear & waste fish, I haven't come across it and I certainly would not approve it. I use all of the fish & return heads/tails/guts to the sea as bait/chum - so there is no waste. Even the heads & bones will sometimes be used for stock (Boullabaise) before being returned to the deep.

Vote for the English & Welsh Greens if you like. I think it would be a misplaced though -- you'd effectively be voting for an end to all hunting and fishing, and meat. I quite like vegan food -- don't think most of the population do though. The name might be Green but it doesn't mean they are green, desirable or safe. A wolf in sheeps clothing?

Originally Posted by Padaxes

As for Palin she terrifies me lol.

There is something to said for that too I forgot to mention there being something of a school mistress(/dominatrix) about her too!

[SurfnSpear]

Quoted reply from BASC regarding the Caroline Lucas Green Party reply...

"Hmm. That is very unhelpful. I have a feeling that the Greens are signed up the Sustainable Hunting Charter (need to check to be sure) in which case she is potentially voting against the European Green Party although with the UK ones."

[Mr. X]

Seems like there are better organisations around if you want to be green.

Countryside Alliance - Present Finder

[mattbarlow]

I`ll never, never vote green again. Always thought they were a good bet in terms of protecting the environment, but actually they are a bunch of nutters who want to dictate not only what we do but also what we eat!

What we need is a scientific study which suggests that plants feel pain and then they will starve themselves to death!

Has anyone sent any messages to the angling press?

[KWM]

Hi all, response from HM government to petition

Read the Government’s response
Under existing EU rules, the “sale, display, or offer for sale of marine organisms caught using methods incorporating the use of any kind of projectile” is prohibited. However, the European Commission is proposing to extend these controls to include the “catching, retention on board, the transhipment, storage, landing, sale, display or offer for sale” of marine organisms caught using methods incorporating, among others, “any kind of projectile”. As such, this would effectively ban spearfishing.

Government’s response to the Commission on their proposals, which we developed after consultation with stakeholders, interested parties and the Devolved Administrations, made the case that the UK is not convinced of the conservation value to be gained from now prohibiting the practice completely (given that this is often a more selective and less intrusive method of capture). We will certainly repeat this view as the negotiations develop, and ensure that spearfishermen and their representatives are kept up to date with developments.

Meanwhile, we have been informed by the British Spearfishing Association that the Information and Communication Unit (of the Commission’s Directorate General for Maritime Affairs and Fisheries) think that an outright ban on spearfishing was not intended. The Commission intends to clarify this at a later date (possibly by defining what is meant by a “projectile”) - this should, hopefully, be a fairly straightforward issue to resolve.

Negotiations on the Commission’s proposals are on-going. The French Presidency has set itself the ambitious target of agreeing the Council framework regulation before the end of the year, so that it can apply from the start of 2009. However, given the complexity of the necessary discussions, we anticipate the negotiations will continue into next year.


Kev

[Mr. X]

Typical govt., they got the first sentence of the response wrong!
Number10.gov.uk Spearfishing - epetition response

The thrust seems fairly positive although I note the use of duplicitous/"forked tongue" weasel-words which make it rather meaningless. They could for example accept a ban except for leap days and spout that it is not a "complete" or "total" ban.

Spearo Dave proposed sensible guidelines early in this thread.

[Mr. X]

Heard some bad news today. Apparently here was an article in yesterdays newspapers. They (British Govt./DEFRA at the EU) are pushing to introduce mandatory sea fishing licenses (knowing those toe rags, they'll no doubt want to include us in that). It was very unpopular when suggested in the Sea Angling mags (British Sea Fishing Capt./journo Alan Yates spoke out in favour - perhaps hoping for funding - but the reader backlash was significant). Typically the proposal is aimed at the Atlantic waters only and not the Med. (I think the French, Italians, Spanish, & Greeks must just tell them to f-off. Quite right.).

[sunfish]

IMHO, if licenses and bag limits are introduced then that's fine as long as it's across the board. eg, angler/ spearfisher-2 bass a day, trawler with 6 crew-12 bass a day. If the license fees paid for enforcement of that then maybe they'd be worth considering.
Does anyone know what's happening with the spearfishing ban? Any news yet?