Chlorine

[naiad]

In the children's pool there is evidence that people don't just piss in the pool...

[wet]

Originally Posted by naiad

Thanks for the link. Very interesting. I know of several children with asthma who use indoor pools regularly. A swimming teacher told me that she teaches a young boy who is a very keen swimmer and has asthma. His sister died of asthma.

I am trying to find out if my problems are caused by pool chemicals. I have greatly cut down on pool use, but I will continue doing everything else the same, including dry statics and land-based fitness training, so any change will only be caused by the decrease in pool use. Today I feel much better than I did a few days ago. If there is a long-term improvement I will post the results.

Some good news - in September I am going to be living near a pool which uses ozone to clean the water, so I'll give that a try.

I noticed this on ozone. I really don't know the good & bad of ozone, but it might make sense to check it out beforehand? This might not be the same ozone chemical used to treat swimming pools. AFAIK, ozone is good when in the upper atmosphere, as it protects us from radiation (?), but bad when in smog because bad for breathing. Do you want me to research this? DDeden

"Ozone ruins toad immune system

Ozone in smog can impair immunity in both human lungs and toad lungs.
Macrophages in lungs engulf bacteria, when dosed with .02 to .08 ppm (typ city smog) exposure, they lose 40% capability to capture bacteria. This pollutant may contribute to the world decline of amphibians".

[naiad]

I did think about that. I think the ozone in pools is used to purify the water but not left dissolved in it, so swimmers are not exposed to it. I'm not sure though, and that doesn't sound good.

I have given up on swimming for the time being anyway. I feel so much better without it!

[trux]

I just came over the following article about chlorination, and since Naiad just mentioned chlorine in another thread, I though it may be of interest for others to have a look at it too. Although the risk is know since a longer time, this article contains some updated data:

Chlorine in the bathwater is linked to cancer | the Daily Mail

It is a newspaper article, but if you prefer scientific paper, check out for example this one:
Water Chlorination: Essential Process or Cancer Hazard? -- BULL et al. 28 (2): 155 -- Toxicological Sciences

This one is of some interest too, though it may be biased, because I think it is a website of a chlorine filter manufacturer or dealer:
Water Chlorination and Cancer Risks

As written in the first article, no panic is necessary - chlorine is being used since more than 100 years, and one has to carefully weight its positive and negative effects. Other disinfection methods are possible too, namely Ultra Violet and Ozone disinfection, but they are more expensive and each has certain disadvantages too. Silver filters are also quite efficient but not usable in industrial scale. It seems that optimal would be a hybrid system combining several methods.

Originally Posted by wet

I noticed this on ozone. I really don't know the good & bad of ozone, but it might make sense to check it out beforehand? This might not be the same ozone chemical used to treat swimming pools. AFAIK, ozone is good when in the upper atmosphere, as it protects us from radiation (?), but bad when in smog because bad for breathing.
...
"Ozone ruins toad immune system...

Ozone is always the same ozone regardless if in water, low or high atmosphere. It is a molecule containing three oxygen atoms (O3) and is very unstable. When used for water disinfection, it is usually introduced into the system at the beginning of the process, before the water enters mechanical (sand) filters, and other parts of the cleaning system. Not only ozone does not dissolve in water, but due its instability it destroys into O2 rapidly, and additionally the removal is assured and accelerated technologically. There are no measurable ozone residuals on the output of the water cleaning station.

It means it poses no health risks directly, because it is inexistent, but in the same time it is also a disadvantage, because unlike at chlorine you cannot easily measure the degree of disinfection. Ozone can create some dangerous byproducts (see here or here), so the technology must assure avoiding it, or filtering them afterwards. Another disadvantage is that it will not kill any bacteria introduced into the water after the disinfection, hence it is less suitable for swimming pools (or the water circulation must be higher than at chlorinated water).

You can read more about ozone disinfection, its advantages and disadvantages for example here:
http://www.nesc.wvu.edu/nsfc/pdf/eti/Ozone_Dis_tech.pdf

If you are interested to get more info on Ozone, then the best starting point is probably WikiPedia:
Ozone
Although Ozone is toxic and indeed dangerous both for animals and vegetation, it is also being used for healing ( Ozone_therapy). However, due to its instability, in the lower atmosphere there can be dangerous levels of Ozone only at high temperatures, strong light, and sufficinet presence of catylisators (Nitrogen Oxides and Hydrocarbons in pollution). This is definitely not the case at Ozone used for water disinfection.

[laminar]

Has anyone swam in a pool cleaned with PristineBlue?

Pristine Pools - The chlorine free solution for public and private swimming pools
PristineBlue | Non-Chlorine Pool Products, Water Treatments.

The website seems aimed at private backyard pools. It's not clear if they have a product aimed at public pools.

It sounds almost too good to be true. I wrote to the manager of my pool about it but got no response.

[trux]

Copper Sulfate used by PristineBlue is a commonly used algaecide. Treating water against algae is only a very small part of swimming pool water treatment. It is not a replacement of disinfection methods mentioned above, and I do not think it is used in drinking water treatment at all (it is quite toxic).

EDIT: well, they claim on their website, it can be used to fight bacteria too and added even to drinking water, but I wonder if it is really as harmless for the health as they claim. I guess it contains other chemicals than just the Copper Sulfate, but I do not see the chemical components anywhere on their website.

[trux]

Well, so I was wrong - it is indeed used as a chlorine alternative and probably is no hoax. I found for example this:

Copper Sulphate: Chlorine Alternative in Swimming Pools

Child asthma solution comes from space – and the Greeks... 'Following a warning from scientists linking asthma in children to indoor swimming pools, Allergy UK today awarded its “Seal of Approval” for a new alternative to chlorine. The award comes as hot tubs, spas, swimming pools and inflatable pools become the “must have” accessory as Britain swelters in the sun. The technology was discovered by the Greeks, and is used today by NASA for keeping drinking water clean in space. It works by deactivating bacteria, rather than aggressively killing it. Instead of chlorine, Pristine Blue uses a natural copper sulphate solution at levels permitted for use in drinking water. It has been approved in the US for use in all 52 States, and is used there in 600,000 pools and spas.'

Seal of Approval awarded to Chlorine Alternative. 'Millions of British swimmers can now avoid bloodshot eyes following the Allergy UK “Seal of Approval” for Pristine Blue, a new alternative to chlorine. The Seal of Approval has been awarded to Pristine Blue for skin and respiratory irritation and as a safe alternative to chlorine treatments. This comes as hot tubs, spas and inflatable swimming pools become the “must have” home accessory for summer 2006.'

[naiad]

Interesting. A few weeks ago I went to a wholesaler of tropical marine aquarium fish, and they use a very low level of copper in their fish system to kill algae and parasites. Copper is toxic to fish, and coral reef fish are very sensitive to polluted water, so the amount used must be very low. It did seem to prevent algae very effectively. The corals and other invertebrates were in a different system, without copper, and there was some algae growth.

If it is effective against bacteria as well as algae, it should be a lot safer than chlorine, as the amount needed would be very small.

[wet]

Chlorine induced VCD in swimmer:

Chlorine Induced Paradoxical Vocal Cord Dysfunction CHEST - Find Articles