open muzzle vs. closed muzzle

[strangelove]

In fact even tough some divers don't think my shooting test pass their standards of precision, I am from that day on, I am only buying guns with open muzzle and circular bands.

[spaghetti]

By chance tomorrow morning I'll go spearing with my buddy who has the Xxv gold. I'll try it and let you know my impressions. But, still talking theoretically, I don't understand Jon's objection...Open muzzle with bands in line is just one of the four options of XXV's multifunction muzzle. And then what's wrong with it? It's just about using a couple of euroslings for those who prefer them, while keeping the muzzle open for a better sight of the shaft. It's an option among others, I cant' see any conceptual contradiction in this.
---(for me the multifunction muzzle is just a "cool for cool" fashion thing. What makes the XXV Gold interesting to me is the slim 25cm barrell with integrated rail: compromise for a very handy and lightweight, but accurate gun. Let me try it tomorrow)

[cadiver]

Thanks Strangelove. I see what you mean on the Riffe Metal techs. Also looks like the Wong Bluewater guns have an enclosed track. Is there any drawbacks to having an enclosed track gun. Does it result in a louder gun (wishbones rubbing on the metal enclosure)

[strangelove]

Cadiver

Normally the enclosed tracks I've seeing are made with delrin so there is no metal rubbing a possible draw back is if the track was not properlly installed it could come lose or detatch from the gun. For all I know derin is more slipery then wood.
My dream gun at this point would be a excalibur 3000 with a delrin enclosed track.

[peskydor]

The semi closed track is a true rail. As such, no muzzle is needed, only a slot for the circular bands, or a bracket for the split bands. Thus, the sight picture is as good as any open muzzle and there is no inconvenience of having the spear come adrift during general transportation, handling or loading. There is no need to wrap the muzzle with a shooting line to control the arrow. Accuracy is good in the sense that the spear is completely controlled by the mono-rail construction. Whipping and bucking are not possible and there is no possibility of the arrow veering off track. I doubt that there is much friction even with wood tracks. Loading is almost as fast as with some closed muzzles but I prefer the type track that is relieved (widened) at the fore end of the gun barrel. This allows about six inches of shaft to be dropped into the track before pushing the whole arrow down the closed section of track. I don't understand the power claims of open versus closed muzzle. I am having trouble finding the physics which would support any difference.

[Amphibious]

Originally Posted by soljah

okay, so first of all. what is the difference between an open and closed muzzle?

The muzzle is the tip of the gun, typically where the bands attach and where the spear exits on firing. a closed muzzle acts like a ring, where the shaft is threaded through before being loaded. this keeps the shaft from falling off the gun when the gun is turned sideways or upside down. and open muzzle has no "top" or Ring, and uses other methods to secure the shaft. most popular being the shooting line crossing over the shaft.

Originally Posted by soljah

why is there such a price difference?

if you ever find out, please tell me ok?

Originally Posted by soljah

and what do they do to accuracy and power?

has nothing to do with power, this is a function of the amount of force applied (bands). it does not make a gun more accurate per say, but many divers find an open muzzle easier to aim.

Originally Posted by soljah

and what is bulk rubber stuff? is it just buying rubber in bulk? like by the foot.

Bulk rubber is band material that can be bought in bulk. by the foot, meter, etc. it has no wishbones or rigging attached.

Originally Posted by soljah

and if so, how do you put it on your gun?

you tie your own bands, or in some cases, special adapters are used (on euro guns with threaded muzzles)

Originally Posted by soljah

sorry about all of the questions. i am kind of new to the speargun thing. thanks!

[Ron S]

Hi folks, I'm newly registered on this forum, but have been lurking for years. I'll try not to make a fool of myself, (too often...). My favorite gun is a little 75cm Sporasub Aspic. It's gone from the stock euro muzzle, to a Rob Allen muzzle, to a Hammerhead Reef open muzzle. As far as power, I've seen no difference between the three muzzles, assuming the same shaft and roughly the same bands. Accuracy has never really changed and has always been good. The only reason I've settled on the open muzzle is that I hunt around rocks and holes. I found with both closed muzzles that if I shoot through a fish and into a rock or the bottom so that the shaft stops before fully leaving the closed muzzle, my shooting line would often get tangled around the band and/or wishbone. For some reason, this never happens with the open muzzle. Other than this problem, (which doesn't seem to effect anyone but me...), I think all three muzzle options are very good. It just comes down to personal preference.
Ron.

[ajwaverider]

Originally Posted by cadiver

Is there any drawbacks to having an enclosed track gun. Does it result in a louder gun (wishbones rubbing on the metal enclosure)

The main drawback is you can't take shots closer than the length of your spear inside the track.If the spear hits a fish while some of the shaft is inside the track it will probaly ruin the track regardlees of what it's made of.I would say cost as the second drawback.It's more work to machine an enclosed track vs an open track.

If you guys want some testing done on your guns send them to me and I will return them to you when winter sets in here along with the test results.

[Hamrrhed]

One of the largest advantages I found with open muzzles is the speed at which I can reload. I scanned throught the post but I didnt find mention of this. I changed out my closed muzzle on my RA and I found it to still be accurate and I recently changed out my closed muzzle on a sporasub, the sporasub was due more to the fact that the CHEAP plastic housings on the stock wishbones broke. I was weary of the sharpe edges of a future replacement.

[gsmith1947]

What is it bthat you love about the OMER 3000. I find it very difficult to load because of the short butt.

[strangelove]

gsmith

I've never used one (I am in speargun probation), but I like the open muzzle, circular band, the track under the whole barrel, the carbon fiber barrel. It just looks like a very nice all around gun, but for now I am sticking with my teak-sea pal-100.

[marceloplanchar]

Is there a webpage where we can see speargun tests videos? I've heard hawaiian skin do test all the times but I never seen a video....

m

[ILDiver]

I've seen tests in Hawaii Skin Diver, but no videos. Omer has some on their site. some on Spearfishing Picture Gallery and some on Omer Not really any comparison of course, just Omer guns.

[marceloplanchar]

Ok all guns developers i have a web development company send me all your guns and ill make a website www.spearguntests.com !!!!

[foxfish]

Originally Posted by marceloplanchar

Is there a webpage where we can see speargun tests videos? I've heard hawaiian skin do test all the times but I never seen a video....

m

There are many test around here is one that might interest you -

BluWorld - Filmati di Tiro Fucili subacquei