Rubber VS Rubber

[ihab]

Greetings All....Summer is here in Egypt

I have a feeling this subject has been covered before but I can’t seem to find a decent topic extensively covering the quality of various rubber bands manufacturers.
I’ve been using RA bands which seem to be excellent quality but I’m sure there are several other brands that work just as well.

Another related topic is the COLOR of the band.
I read somewhere that the Amber colored bands are the purest form……..is that true or hype.

Any info on this subject would be appreciated…..Just gearing up for those long Summer dives……it’s a dirty job but someone has to do it

Cheers,
Ihab

[Marwan]

ive heard the same rumor of amber coloured bands too..not sure if its true, people also add a fancy name "surgical rubber" ...makes it look more professional...
cant say i have felt a diffference between black and amber and blue for that matter
Rob allen and rabitech i think produce some of the best bands..when i say best its based on the perception that they retain their elastic qualities, not too tough to load, retain power and dont wear out easily...
having said that i also find bands by seatec and picasso to be very nice..as well as omer...i didnt like demka tooooo stiff..

[bluewaterkiller]

Hello out there..shalom, ha!ha!

the natural latex color is clear Amber as it said chirurgical ..
the colored rubbers are for ``marketing`` purposes black,red,blue .
are the same with a coloring ads.
except for the main green quality the latex is the same . with a result showing the original amber color is always a little bit more progressive rubber...
factory around the world could be find with google ..in usa/mexico/
and elses asia/brazil..
you can order special colors to factory with a minimum of 3000 feet per
color per sizing .
then you ve got some not natural rubbers ..are shit..

all z bests
marco

[blaiz]

From what I know, the colors of rubbers do make a difference!

The amber colored bands last longer, they dont crack as fast but they dont have as much power as other bands.

Red bands = less power but are good for accuracy

Black Bands - for high power bands they are the most stable

Blue - Highest power but the power is inconsistant from band to band

[irtrogdor]

Originally Posted by blaiz

From what I know, the colors of rubbers do make a difference!

The amber colored bands last longer, they dont crack as fast but they dont have as much power as other bands.

Red bands = less power but are good for accuracy

Black Bands - for high power bands they are the most stable

Blue - Highest power but the power is inconsistant from band to band

I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. At all. I can understand the amber and blue ones lasting longer, but that is only because they absorb less sunlight that the other colors. As for color affecting accuracy or power consistency, I am quite sure you will never be able to back up that claim.

[Marwan]

take it easy intorgdor its not like hes claiming the cure to cancer ...but you make a good point....blaiz would you care to elaborate on your colour theory mate

[Mr. X]

I believe the RA rubber comes from the USA, as does much of the rubber used by other companies. Fondueset did some research and found the industry experts in this sort of stuff were the companies than made rubber for castrating bullocks! I think most is produced by two companies in the US. [Perhaps we could coax the London Rubber Company to apply some of their expertise - Durex bands? Or Michelin in France? Pirelli in Italy?]

I agree, the RA rubber seems very dense and powerful. I liked their 16mm bands, plenty powerful enough for me. I find their 20mm rubber hardwork on my 90cm railgun & will switch back to 16mm when these wear out (if they wear out) - more than powerful enough for the UK.

Recently I got an Omer with 18mm bands. I know Spaghetti rates Omer rubber in the 18mm size. They seem quite powerful. Squeezing the rubbers, it feels to me like the Omer rubbers have a much larger hollow space in the middle than the RA rubbers. To look at, 18mm rubbers look about the same thickness as the 20mm RA rubbers.

Spaghetti and others rate Dessault rubber, which has different characteristics so I am keen to try that next. Bulk rubber would be my preference, with a Dyneema wishbone. The screw-in wishbone caps seem to allow water into the rubbers.

[mishu1984]

Mr.X,
what would you say is the implications of water in your bands? I mean, does the water reduce power?
also, can you say with all honesty that homemade bands dont get water in them?

[bluewaterkiller]

Originally Posted by blaiz

From what I know, the colors of rubbers do make a difference!

The amber colored bands last longer, they dont crack as fast but they dont have as much power as other bands.

Red bands = less power but are good for accuracy

Black Bands - for high power bands they are the most stable

Blue - Highest power but the power is inconsistant from band to band

ok .let`s say :it do make a difference ..it is a natural reaction from the colors injections..then as said introgdor you ve got some different reactions ..for a little bit ..black are harder , some red are too, and all crack faster under UV -just logical..
as mr X said:Dessault produce is OWN latex and as far i know they are the or one from the only speargun brand that is doing it..
they got an harder quality with more punch ..why?
because :originaly the dessault were produced for european/ and mainly mediterraneans spearos .and in mediterranee see the salt consistance is different than in other larger oceans such as pacific..
then you need more punch ..we realized that when `Tahiti` teams did traveled to some comp such as in France or Tunisia..there they had to shorten the rubbers to get some efficient power with the same guns as they were using in over here ..
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mishu1984 said..

what would you say is the implications of water in your bands? I mean, does the water reduce power?
-------------------------------------------------------------
how can water be going inside the band hole ? as generally it is plugged by some bridle/ plastic ball in euro rubber/what ever constrictor knots..??
and if ever it would it is certainly not a big deal..

[blaiz]

Originally Posted by irtrogdor

I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. At all. I can understand the amber and blue ones lasting longer, but that is only because they absorb less sunlight that the other colors. As for color affecting accuracy or power consistency, I am quite sure you will never be able to back up that claim.

I didnt make this up from the top of my head. I know for a fact that the red rubber is not as powerful as the black rubber (at least the types I buy from my local shop) have used both, and I get way more punch out of the black rubber. As far as the yellow rubbers lasting longer I have heard this from many of the top Hawaiian spearos and witnessed it myself. My dive partner and I replaced our bands at the same time, he used the amber I used the black. We are roomates as well so our gear is stored together and we dive with each other 99% of the time. My gun had better punch but I had to change my bands within about a month due to cracking by my wishbone. His rubbers lasted almost 4 months. (I tied both sets so the wishbones were the same, the lengths and the clynch knots were the same, the only difference was the rubber.)I had gone through 3 sets of rubbers before he had to change his. I opted for the black as I felt I had more power and range. He has since changed his to the black as well.

I have also read about this on another forum here in Hawaii recently. This is one of the forum mentors talking about color of bands and the differences. Just a second opinion...

"Color changes the compund of the rubber so alot of companies jumped on the 'band wagon' in an effort to sell more. Colored bands will NOT last you as long as natural Amber bands. Adding colors changes the properties and elasticity. Some compnaies are working around this now by having the majority of the band be amber with the exterior coatig being the color. I guess it's better than the original solids, but you still have rubber degradation faster in the color portion. So quicker than a solid amber or black, you have lost some of your band diameter.

I can speak from experience as I purposely ran 1 blue band, 1 black band, and 1 amber on my my Wong Hybrid. Within 2 weeks (diving twice a week for about 6 hours at a time), the blue band was in bad shape, major loss of power and already showing cracking. The black was showing cracks, but still had decent stretch/elasticity but definitely needed to be changed after the first month. The amber lasted almost 2 months before I noticed the same difference.

I purchase alot of rubber from Primeline who is also the company that most of the shops buy from. Sure, the colors look cool, but not worth the added expense of continual replacement. Once you learn to tie your own bands, you really start noticing the loss of power more since it is actually CHEAP to put new bands on. I find myself changing my bands monthly and I am down to diving only once, rarely twice in a week. Also, band material exposed to air and lights in a dive shop can degrade as well so if can, ask for rubber that is at least hidden from light (inside the box or the other end) and not the foot long piece hanging out.

Also, remember that most bands will lose approximately 10% of their power within the first hour of diving."

(Sean Stodelle , Hawaii Skin Diver • View topic - help with bands)
Rubber Test6 Here is another link to a band test which clearly shows different band stretch from color to color and maker to maker.

[blaiz]

Originally Posted by bluewaterkiller

mishu1984 said..

what would you say is the implications of water in your bands? I mean, does the water reduce power?
-------------------------------------------------------------
how can water be going inside the band hole ? as generally it is plugged by some bridle/ plastic ball in euro rubber/what ever constrictor knots..??
and if ever it would it is certainly not a big deal..

Water will enter the bands as well, it does so through the woven wishbone, also when your bands are stretched the water is able to ente the bands. It is not large amounts of water, and the damage it will cause is minimal, but Im sure it adds a little to the degedation of your bands...but what can you do about it?...its just the nature of the beast.

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by mishu1984

Mr.X,
what would you say is the implications of water in your bands? I mean, does the water reduce power?
also, can you say with all honesty that homemade bands dont get water in them?

Implications of water in the bands? Don't know, I was just surprised to see it streaming out when I unscrewed my wishbone for the first time. It doesn't seem to adversely affect performance as far as I can tell (new gun) but I doubt if it helps. I usually try to remove all salt water from the gun after use - so should probably flush the bands inside too (not hard).

Usually, I don't find water in the RA rubbers as the wishbone is tied tightly in, blocking the holes, but I did find a little water in my old 16mm bands when I replaced them & was concerned as the gun had starting seeming a little muzzle heavy around the same time. In hindsight, I was probably just becoming more aware of the characteristics gun.

[slingshaft]

Wow,I thought I could actually add something to the discussion,but I'm more confused than ever. Perhaps I'd misunderstood forum dialoging from the past, but I remember that the general consensus was that color is used as a U.V. blocker,and the drawback to this addition is a reduction in elasticity. However now, all I really care about is which one packs the biggest, baddest punch! I can buy fresh black 5/8in. for $2.00 per ft.(bulk) here in town. What I really want is 21mm. Certainly, we all want to improve the overall performance of our guns, (and I'll admit that I'm an equipment junkie) the fact is that slings are supposed to be used up. So even though four 5/8in. bands work very well, I still want 21mm grunt

[bluewaterkiller]

Originally Posted by slingshaft

Wow,I thought I could actually add something to the discussion,but I'm more confused than ever. Perhaps I'd misunderstood forum dialoging from the past, but I remember that the general consensus was that color is used as a U.V. blocker,and the drawback to this addition is a reduction in elasticity. However now, all I really care about is which one packs the biggest, baddest punch! I can buy fresh black 5/8in. for $2.00 per ft.(bulk) here in town. What I really want is 21mm. Certainly, we all want to improve the overall performance of our guns, (and I'll admit that I'm an equipment junkie) the fact is that slings are supposed to be used up. So even though four 5/8in. bands work very well, I still want 21mm grunt

21mm? i got 20 feet more or less of 22mm amber natural latex rubbers.if you like?let me know ..
marco

[slingshaft]

22mm How much are you asking? Perhaps the cost of shipping would be too much.