The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 3 - Rail & Spear Diameter

[Pastor]

What exactly are you saying here? That the 6.5mm should be grouped together?

[foxfish]

I dont quite get you point Rick just tell me that again?
We want this to be as diplomatic as possible but it seems to me the enclosed track is way in front?

[Marwan]

fox i think i see what rick means.. if you look at the last option on the poll and then at the 3rd from the bottom..they are both talking about 6.5mm spear on a rail gun, but people cant decide between notched and shrkfin...so rick is saying if you group these 2 options as (6.5mm railgun) it would be more popular then the enclosed track 6.5mm which is the apparent winner so far...
the other point he makes is that the enclosed track only has the option of sharkfins..so poeple have no choice of getting getting split votes between notches and shark fins like what's going on with the railgun...

Rick, does this sound right? bear in mind though that with enclosed track you cannot have notches (you wont be able to load it) you can only have sharfins..big ones too..probably will mandate an open muzzle as well

[blaiz]

interesting point!

[Mr. X]

I'm disappointed that we've rules out a mid-handled or rear trigger design, thought from earlier discussion that was still a possibility. (Maybe that'd be an option for a longer gun next year?!).

I haven't voted yet, heeding the advice to view the discussion first. My initial preference was for railgun with 6.5/6.3mm spear (probably a single notched 6.3 for a gun with no support for an optional second rubber or a double notched 6.5 if there is provision for an optional second rubber).

My first thought on seeing Spaghetti's second bat-wing cross sectional view was: double barrel side-by-side! Deep down, I really don't think an enclosed track is a good idea. Not sure why, probably concerns about grit, sand, gunk getting stuck in there, non-straight spears, jammed mechs, spear-line routing (don't like the idea of rings, from discussions on Billers/JBLs/Sea Hornets), constraining spear diameter. However, reading the thread on them a while back I seem to recall one of the pioneers posting that he originally used them for a second barrel under the main barrel, so how about an over-and-under?! (Hey Picasso make a double spear speargun). Just kidding, it strikes me as very dangerous.

Final thought: 6.5mm railgun, notched for Dyneema wishbone (those darn SA's just got it right IMHO).

[foxfish]

From my point of view an open track & a rail gun are quite different gun designs, both can be used with sharkfin spears but the rail gun (my perception) is more suitable for use with a sharkfin because the grove is cut deep to stabilize lateral spear distortion.
Obviously the enclosed track can only use that type of spear.
Mr x you are entitled to your views & the best of luck to you winning what you want.

[Lockedin]

Originally Posted by Marwan

...Rick, does this sound right? bear in mind though that with enclosed track you cannot have notches (you wont be able to load it) you can only have sharfins..big ones too..probably will mandate an open muzzle as well

Yes, Marwan, that was my point - Thanks for saying what I could not express properly!
And the inability for a notched shaft / enclosed track is my point: Perhaps notched / finned should be saved for a different poll.

Regardless, I can hardly wait to see this very special piece of work when it arrives on my doorstep!

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by foxfish

... the rail gun (my perception) is more suitable for use with a sharkfin because the grove is cut deep to stabilize lateral spear distortion.

The sharkfin has a convincing lead. Yes, the railgun spears have deeper grooves so they don't cut into Dyneema wishbones, and yes a sharkfin spear would be stronger, although my 6.6mm RA spear seems more than tough enough for UK waters, we don't get many tuna. I guess it might be more of an issue for those shooting 50lb+ fish in the med & elsewhere. I am not aware of any lateral spear distortion with notched spears -- perhaps more of an issue with thinner 6mm/6.3mm spears? The notches are symmetrical so I am surprised that they would distort laterally rather than vertically. Call me sceptical but the issue sounds more theoretical than real - perhaps invented by a Marketing dept. to sell their new product.

Also, I would suggest a 2 notch spear even for a single rubber gun. Having just read Spaghetti's suggestion of using the front notch to "power down" for caves on a different thread.

[Pastor]

There is a school of thought that believes that even on a rail gun shark fin shafts provide an advantage by less shaft oscillation during the acceleration of the shaft. How true that is I don't know but it's an option to vote for if you believe it.

Originally Posted by Mr. X

I'm disappointed that we've rules out a mid-handled or rear trigger design, thought from earlier discussion that was still a possibility. (Maybe that'd be an option for a longer gun next year?!).

I'm disappointed about the handle too. I had hoped that we all were going to build a gun like no other, full of innovative ideas. The last thing I would call an accepted feature of a Eurogun would have been an enclosed track but that seems to have been readily accepted. Has the trigger been properly discussed yet? Maybe I missed that bit.

So when is all this gun building happening? I think it's about time a start was made by now.

[Marwan]

youre right pastor.. I hear the Gits is getting his stuff in order and maybe we will see some progress pretty soon..

[foxfish]

Lots of valid points there, so I guess this pioneering idea is also a learning curve?
Yes things are happening - Gits now has the teak & purple heart & will be gluing up the stock very soon.
There will have a separate thread that will follow the build with lots of photos as the work progresses.
Before the next poll starts, we are thinking about giving you the opportunity to make any suggestions you might have & a general chat about what can or can't be done. Good idea?

[blaiz]

Ooh, this is exciting! I personally dont think that the handle position is really an issue. The gun at hand is only a 90 cm gun. Why take 15% of the reach out of an already short gun? Maybe this is a clear water train of thought. I personally have not dove in waters with visibility less than 30 ft. (im not bragging) In fact I think that If I were to dive in very merky waters I would be shaking in my boots(or booties), so since there is a strong opinion for a mid-handle gun what is its purpose?

[Mr. X]

Good idea Foxfish. How about an LED torch or laser pointer built into/on the end of the barrel or bottom of handle?!

Originally Posted by blaiz

... I personally have not dove in waters with visibility less than 30 ft. (im not bragging)

Don't expect any sympathy from UK spearos I think I have experienced 30 ft visibility, maybe twice in the sea here. 3ft being far more common . The reason for a mid-handle (seems weird saying this to a spearo from the land of Daryl Wong) is to allow a long gun (90cm is a long gun in the UK) to have many of the advantages or both a long gun & a short reef gun, so that only one gun need be carried. Perhaps we should shoot for a 1m mid-handle gun next year -- although you might want 130cm railgun! Mid-handles are now quite uncommon in europe (seems more of an American thing) but Pastor has championed them as being well suited to UK waters and some of us are quite curious to see how they stack up.

[foxfish]

Well described Mr x, most things in life have pros & cons.
I have spent my life spearfishing the Channel Islands & I use pretty much the same guns as every other guy who spearfishes here! Considering we shoot the majority of fish within a foot or so from the spear point, an outstretched arm with a 1.2mtr (gun & spear) extension puts your spear tip 1.8mtr or 6' from from your eyes. A mid handle would force me to get closer for that guaranteed kill shot, the argument about more manoeuvrability simply does not apply to my normal hunting stye. I dont track fish like shooting a clay pigeon, I never have!
However if there was reason to track fish I can see how a mid handled gun would cause less resistance when trying to move it horizontally through the water but then I have a mamba that has huge range & very good tracking potential.
Pastor enthusiasm for mid handles must have some merit & considering I have never hunted with one I take his word that they work very well.

[foxfish]

Ok so this poll closes tomorrow, last chance to vote?
O & Gits is on line http://forums.deeperblue.net/spearo-...tml#post709688