The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 7 - Handle Style Choice

[gserghiou]

Hi All,

been a member here for some time but not active alot...

seen this thread and i ve been occasionally visiting it...

I think that with this Excellent idea of constructing a gun, with the input of the forum members a personalized handle (for the hand of the winner) would be the way to go. Its a shame for such a beautiful work , not to be 100% Perfect..a custom made personal to the winner handle will achieve 100% in my opinion.

many good ideas have been suggested already....

Im sure the builder of the gun will accomodate for a 100% custom fit to the winners hand (left or right) !!!!

Excellent Innovative thread !!!!

GREAT JOB !!!

George

[Pastor]

Originally Posted by Pastor

I agree Dobs, target pistols have evolved around a precision shot, recoil absorption is key to that.

I had a PM from Podge setting me straight on that statement. My fault, it is very badly worded, I didn't mean to imply that the shape of the handle was key to absorbing recoil on any type of gun but more the position it puts your hand in relationship to it. Of course the shape has more to do with comfort and putting the gun in exactly the same place in your hand every time it's picked up so precision is maintained. However a speargun handle has to help keep the gun solidly locked to the divers hand to aid swinging it against water resistance. So deep relief grips (Podge!!!! second word is off ) give the hand something to push against.

[ILDiver]

While this is a custom gun, I don't think it's meant to be specifically customized. It's meant to be a group effort to put all the ideas out and agree on a best fit. At least that is what I pick up from foxfish on other threads.

So imo some sort of Ambi Ergo grip like they make for AR15's would be good. Looking at the work so far I think it is going to be an excellent piece of work. A contoured handle with just the right thickness, not to big for the smaller hands but very usable for bigger hands.

To go along with the poll and wood choice, I agree with Pastor on contrast to the handle. BUT, if it's going to be a wood handle, there is already Teak and Purpleheart, I don't know if another color of wood would be too much. A more blond wood I think would make a nice handle on a Teak gun, but again, with the purple heart... I think the same wood should be used.

(That was hard to right, I was trying to avoid sounding like the ole how much wood could a woodchuck chuck)

[Dobs]

Chris, I tend to disagree with you on the handle matter
If we want to have the "perfect" gun, or at least as close to perfect as possible, we shouldn't just put any handle that fits eveyone's hand...
The handle is probably one of the most important pieces in a gun and the precision depends very much on it. Bad angle, bad position, insufficient support are a sure recipe for bad recoil that will seriously impact the precision of the gun. And after all the effort to make enclosed track and make sure the gun will shoot as straight as possible, putting the wrong handle will mess it all up...

That's my 2 cents.

[ILDiver]

I don't disagree that a custom handle that fits the winner is the best way. I'm with you on that. But the gun has to fit a general population. I know the handle is important, but so is length, so maybe the winner should have picked the length. Same for # of bands and the track style. (I'm not being a jerk, this is the argument that was presented before)

One thing on recoil. The grip position vertically, has great effect. The higher you can get the grip, more inline with the bands, the better it would be. That way you get the recoil to go more straight back than muzzle going up. I think that is why some spearo's push on the butt of their gun and keep a lighter grip on the handle. I'm guessing that with the width of this gun, at 90cm, recoil won't be too bad.

[foxfish]

Great stuff chaps, keep the discussion going (shame more members dont join in though) But dont forget that the big speargun manufacturers have done a lot of testing to discover what works best. However our gun is individual & a well shaped handle really does make a gun look special. I wonder if interchangeable grips or even a slip on complete grip would be possible. Either way I dont know if a metal frame is necessary? I was thinking more along the lines of an integrated handle (fitted in the normal fashion) but with simple screw on interchangeable side plates ?

[gserghiou]

Ηι All,

I feel I'm butting in as i did not take part in the previous discussions...

I'm totally in favor of a customized personal handle....

a general handle is a

perhaps the gun can be finished with a general handle (so that the groove for the handle is opened , and the gun to be finished around it..but the handle not glued in) ...


The constant here will be:
---------------------------
1. the position of the hand of the spearo when holding the handle, in relation to the gun-shaft (as higher as possible)

Variables
--------
1. Dimensions of the handle to fit small-big hands (or personal preference)
2. Left or Right handed handle (or even unisex )
3. Angle of handle in relation to the gun axis
4. anatomical shape to fit exactly in our hand with comfort and have strong hold (using a glove of course)
5. Distance of the trigger from the handle (i mean when you hold the handle how far to reach for the trigger...i don't know if i explain myself well here)


Now, from the 6 items (1 constant 5 variables) to take in consideration when designing the handle (for effectiveness and not looks) 85 % is from the variable group.

So...to sacrifice 85 % of the 'effective function' of the handle would be a bad thing......you will 'cripple' the gun ....


My opinion is that:
whoever the lucky winner is, he/she can go and buy some molding material.

he/she will then get a stick and put the molding material on it and shape it to his/her very personal preference (using a glove always) and try out some trigger spacings and note the distance from the finger....also try and figure out what angle is best for you, comfort and aiming etc

Then these information can be given to the builder , together with the molding of the personalized handle and the builder could 'transfer' it on wood !!!

I understand the the 'copy' of the mold on the wood will not be a 100% copy but it will be still be very very good !!!!


My opinions....

P.S some members mention that if this was the case then the winner should get to chose number of bands, length of gun etc...

as this part(the handle) is easily changed to another, its worth the extra effort to do so

Thanks,

George

[ILDiver]

I guess I don't see the handle to be this involved. How many custom guns have fully molded grips available? I have not seen one, but if someone knows, I really would be interested in their process.

I'm sticking with Foxfish's idea of replaceable grips then it could come with left and right handed grips with a thumb rests. Then if the winner has the ability, they can make their own molded/custom shaped grip.

[Pastor]

So what are the options?

1. General purpose grip like comercial guns
2. Chance a right handed gun with a semi customised grip
3. Fixed centre section with either screw on left or right handed semi customised attachments
4. Fixed centre section with Polymorph for the winner to shape themselves.
5. General purpose grip with adjustable supports for under the hand and thumb.
6. Fully customised handle with the winner to travel to see the gits or send him/her a model of their perfect grip

[foxfish]

The issue with no4, from my point of view, is that stuff looks s...t! I know it works well but it might spoil the looks of an otherwise beautiful gun?
The other point, from my point of view, is that in the winter most of us wear cloves & in the summer we dont.

[Pastor]

Hmm, never thought of that one, it's always too cold up here.

Is No 5 the best compromise then? Spaghetti posted a picture a while ago with an arrangement like that.

[foxfish]

Naa no6 with all expenses paid

[flyflicker]

So how much would you pay and how far would you travel for 'perfect grip' foxy?

I would think No 5 is the best option, like people have said, glove - no glove; right or left handed problem..

[gserghiou]

The winner will not have to travel to go to the builder, unless he wishes to and he/she lives near by.

the winner can post the molding he/she makes of his anatomical shape to the builder.

im sure teh builder will be able to 'carve' the handle to the shape of teh mold, given by the winner...or at least it will be an 80% perfect personal fit, instead of a universal one...

and believe me, if you have used a universal handle and then a personal anatomical one (ON THE SAME GUN) you will know the difference...

surely it must be made of wood and not other moulding material (the finished product) to keep the wood 'magic' look !!

universal
persoanl anatomical

[ILDiver]

We are talking about a 90cm gun here. Most shots no greater than 4m really. An anatomical grip is a nice idea, but overboard imo.

I'm still interested in seeing one in use on a speargun. Anyone know of someone that has a gustom grip like this with pictures? I've seen them on hand guns, but they only make a difference when your talking grouping shots under an inch in a competition.

Fox, I've never been over there, I can't wait to meet you when I pick up my gun