Apnea walking question & survey

[efattah]

I would like to hear from people who have done extensive apnea walk training.

I'm trying to figure out if apnea walking can actually create any type of improvement. When I say improvement I mean 'real' improvement, as in increased O2 storage or true energy changes. When I say improvement I do *not* mean that you are simply learning to resist the urge to breathe for longer.

Many people who do apnea walks DO improve, but what is really happening is they just are adapting to holding their breath. In other words their apnea walks teach them to push through the struggle for longer, getting closer and closer to a BO/samba.

I am interested in hearing from people who:
1) have done extensive apnea walk training
2) are able to perform an apnea walk to the point of a samba

If we consider 'WDTS' = walk distance to samba, meaning the length you must walk to reach a borderline samba, then I would like to hear your response to the following question:

1) Did your WDTS increase with time?
2) If so, how much did it increase (meters, minutes, or steps)?
3) How many sessions per week, how many walks per session, how many weeks of training?
4) What lung volume were you using (exhale, FRC, full inhale, mild packing, full packing?)
5) Were you doing any other training (diving, or cross training) ?
6) What was your starting WDTS (time, distance, steps)?
7) What was your 'finishing' WDTS or PB? (time, distance, steps)?

[jome]

October 23rd 2005 to November 12th 2005

Start from:
2:45/130m

"So I've now set a baseline. 2:45/130m. I was seconds away from samba, but it's a start. In fact I was surprised I could get such a good result on the first try."

PB was at 11-nov (at that time I was measuring time, not distance):
"3:20/143m (still really slow)

What can I say. It felt absolutely horrible, but no samba. I continued with the "low ventilation" approach, on the final walk taking 5 deep breaths before starting (which is clear hyperventilation, but much less than usual)"

PB in distance 31-Oct:
2:47/182m
"Again I'm surprised how good the first one went. Maybe packing is really not that good for dynamic? The difference seems negliable, I think tomorrow I'll try all of them without packing...

On the second one, I walked noticeably faster, which resulted in the longest distance so far. It seems my normal strategy is definately too slow!"


So in conclusion I'd say...Meh, not real progress in my mind. Sure there was improvement but I think within the boundaries of what's expected in just dropping other physical training in favor of apnea. I can't remember what happened, it seems I just stopped logging.

Too bad I didn't record the steps. The way I measured distance was that I kept walking a pre-measured distance of 13m back and forth.

So:
1) Yes, a little
2) In distance about 40 meters but it's hard to compare because I kept experimenting with pace etc - so wouldn't automatically expect "inceased o2 stores". In time 35 seconds, but again different pace as the baseline.
3) About 3 weeks, every other day or so
4) I usually did 3 walks per session. 1 without packing (full inhale) and 2 with packing to "max"
5) Yes dynamics and also gym workouts
6) 2:45/130m
7) 2:47/182m (timewise 3:20/143m)

Form personal exprience I did not find this kind of training very beneficial. It's great for a beginner for the reasons you mentioned (anything that helps you tolerate the breathing reflex basically works). I've been meaning to go back into "moving dry apnea" training, but I would do it differently (on exhale, trying to get the muscles fatigued and o2 deprived). I think Kimmo (who occasionally writes here) did a pretty extensive set of that, but don't know what the results were in the end.

Also I don't think 3 weeks is really enough to develop any serious changes. This was a preparing for a competition if I remember correctly, so it was the 3 weeks of "finalizing" and trying to peak.

[efattah]

Thanks Simo.

I've tried 5 walks per session (FRC), almost every day, for several weeks. There was a small jump initially, followed by a total plateau, no more improvement.

Years ago (2003) I did full exhale apnea walks, 40 walks per session, each full max. Over four sessions I improved dramatically (0'44"/80 steps, to 1'06"/120 steps).

I'm thinking of trying the 2003 protocol again.

[BennyB]

About 18 months ago before the Maribor Worlds I did a lot of Apnea walking, on my walk home from work along the Thames during summer. I was doing specific CO2/hypoxic tolerance training, FRC holds walking at a brisk rate for 20 paces with only 1 exhale and an inhale between sets, for approx 1.5 to 2 miles. I never took myself to the point of samba and I didn't have any noticeable increase in overall breath hold, just benefits from CO2 tolerance.

I think perhaps if i'd kept it up for more than a month I would have had some sort of benefit (more so from the hypoxic part rather than the CO2 tolerance - change in bloodwork etc), but of course this is anecdotal. I did perform a PB static during this time but it's hard to isolate one part of a training regime.


I think that any sort of max training (wet and dry) will provide better max results, it's very hard to simulate a max inhale scenario (ie. simulating the last part of a dive).


Cheers,
Ben

[Mafnet]

I know Im going to sound stupid but what exactly is the differance between a blackout and a somba

[Whopperhead]

Blackout is "turning the lights off"
Samba is being in a room while someone flickers on and off the lights - as if you were at a Rave. And your body does a sort of Samba Dance (loss of some control) Near Blackout.

[trux]

blackout = loss of consciousness
samba = loss of motor control