Static question

[Bill]

Thanks Eric. That explains why statics seem easier from warm-up to a certain point when I am a little cold. Is muscle heating the reason that cold seems to work better for constant? I don't know what you mean by "1. Immersion pressure gradients".
I started doing facial immersions for constant last year and they seem to work. Wonder if anyone would like to comment on the real old theory that breathing through a snorkel reduces the dive reflex. Do you think that it would be better to breathe through a snorkel during the final 5-10 minutes or start a static with a dry face?
Aloha
Bill

[Retrion]

Well my question would be is what really initiates the diver reflex. is it the mentality of you knowing your in water, when water touches your skin, or breathing. Because if it has to do with breathing, i don't see why the diver reflex should kick in if you use a snorkel. becuase don't you just breath normally with a snorkel?

[trux]

Originally Posted by Retrain

Well my question would be is what really initiates the diver reflex. is it the mentality of you knowing your in water, when water touches your skin, or breathing. Because if it has to do with breathing, i don't see why the diver reflex should kick in if you use a snorkel. becuase don't you just breath normally with a snorkel?

Face immersion is, beside others (hypercapnia, hypoxia, breath-holding itself, stress, ...), one of the more important triggers of bradycardia and DR. It is actually sensed by face thermo-receptors (there are no humidity sensors in the skin).

So although the face immersion (or cooling the face) works pretty well for bradycardia (slow heart rate), it is logical that you cannot expect staying in bradycardia for prolonged periods of time - the blood circulation wouldn't be sufficient. Also it is especially the thermo shock that kicks in the effect, so once you get used to the new temperature the effect of the face immersion wears out with time.

Breathing with snorkel can also slightly increase the CO2 level because of the "dead air" in the snorkel. That told, unless you hyperventilate (what many divers do when breathing through snorkel). The increased CO2 level could be also a factor accelerating the DR. On the other hand, again, the body cannot stay in DR, or in anaerobic mode too long, so the effect would again wear off and may be counterproductive.

Prolonging the DR and the consequent anaerobic metabolism over necessary time would deplete the body pretty quickly, and fill it up with waste products. What seems to happen at trained divers is that the body is more alert to the changes and going from one state to another quicker. Also, there are several different processes in the DR and do not necessarily change with the same speed and intensity. Some of the effects wear off pretty slow - for example spleen contraction is continuous during repetitive diving and starts to release only about 60 minutes after the last dive.

For example seals dive normally in aerobic mode, and use empty lungs dives and strong mammalian reflex (hence anaerobic mode) usually only in case of deep and long dives, or in case of danger or emergency.

I saw there were some studies done about serial diving and diving reflex (example), but unfortunately I did not find any of the documents in full form, so cannot point to any hard facts about the impact of permanently immersed face or permanent use of snorkel during serial diving.

[efattah]

For competition static I always breathe-up through a snorkel, for the entire session. In fact sometimes during my entire warm up I never even take my face out of the water. For me it has little to do with any facial immersion effect, and more to do with the fact that floating face down is the most relaxed position.

All my wet static pb's were done with a snorkel, 7'58" wet in practice and 7'12" in competition.

All my constant weight pb's were also done using a snorkel. Back in 2000 I did a series of objective experiments where I did statics & dives starting with different breathe-up positions, for example:
breathe-up method #A --> then dive 30m (or do static)
breathe-up method #B --> then dive 30m (or do static)
breathe-up method #A --> then dive 30m (or do static)
breathe-up method #B --> then dive 30m (or do static)

In all cases, breathing up through the snorkel resulted in the best times & depths. I even did spirometer tests to see in which position I could pack the most, and again breathing up face down with a snorkel resulted in the largest packing volume.

[Bill]

Thanks for the info. I've done it almost the opposite way for a few years now. The start of the max static is the first time my face has been wet for 48 hours. No snorkel, no mask, no nose clip, keep it all nice and simple. If I quickly 'make up' the 10-15 seconds that you are ahead of me on PBs, you'll know how I did it.
Aloha
Bill

[Retrion]

AH HA! finally i have a snowday! Considering I have a snow day you can assume it is cold where i am. Does cold weather affect your performance. In other words, Is there a benefit to breathing warmer or colder air before you dive? I would think colder because the air is more dense so wouldn't you possibly be able to hold more air in your lungs? Then again what would cold air do to your lungs after 5 minutes?

-Ret

[dfriedman]

I read that most of the best performances are in colder weathers (I'm not making any personal claims--just chiming in).

I posted this in "underwater confidence training". Since this had to do with more "static" than "dynamic" I thought I should drop in and get everybody's 2-cents.

I've been doing O2 and CO2 tables for a week. The last tables were as follows.

First, I was static for 1:30 and breath-up for 30 sec's X 10.

Then I held my breath for (static)...

1:00, 1:15, 1:30, 1:45, 2:00, 2:15, 2:30, 2:45, 3:00 with a 2:00 breth-up in between.

Then I went for a PB for a breath-hold...the result 4:57! I jumped from 3:31.

1) What are your thoughts on the tables?

2) Do you think doing the tables before hand prevented me to have a better breath-hold???

3) Lastly, SEDATE wrote "what ever you do never fill your lung fully , inhale 3/4 or less totally close your eyes while atempt any max hold or A/B tables"

I've heard different...How much do you fill your lungs?

FN

[Retrion]

I have been doing the tables for a week as well. I will be going for my PB tomorrow in hopes that the tables made some improvement. My current PB is 4:10 so we'll see what happens. So far I like the tables. I'll tell you after tomorrow if they worked for me.

dfreidman... did you do the table right before your new PB breath hold? in that case I would definately say that it helped you. Did you do both before?

These are the tables I use:::
CO² Table:
1. ventilate 2:30 static 1:30
2. ventilate 2:15 static 1:30
3. ventilate 2:00 static 1:30
4. ventilate 1:45 static 1:30
5. ventilate 1:30 static 1:30
6. ventilate 1:15 static 1:30
7. ventilate 1:00 static 1:30
8. ventilate 1:00 static 1:30
total duration 25:15

O² Table:
1.ventilate 2:00 static 1:00
2.ventilate 2:00 static 1:15
3.ventilate 2:00 static 1:30
4.ventilate 2:00 static 1:45
5.ventilate 2:00 static 2:00
6.ventilate 2:00 static 2:15
7.ventilate 2:00 static 2:30
8.ventilate 2:00 static 2:30
total duration 30:45

In terms of filling lungs i take about 95% deep breath. but it is obvious that filling your lungs more can be beneficial to your time as long as you know how to do it and can hold it in.

-Ret

[dfriedman]

RET,

When I went for my first PB I had not done anything at all. I just concentrated on how much your mind plays a role. It helped me a lot reading about some guys experience (5:30) on Impulseadventure and taking a few tips to just stay calm. He wrote down the thoughts he had every 30 sec's.

The second time I went for my PB (4:57) I had done all my tables. I noticed when I hit 3:00 on my O2 table it was so easy. So I layed on the ground and went for it (I usually do my tables while I do my homework).

As for the tables you provided--those are the ones I did last week. I tweeked them just a little to simulate some of my training (30 sec rest).

I do lots of cardio training--I think that's why I have been able to hit 4:57 so quickly (I think).

As for filling my lungs...I try 100%...I'm still wondering why SEDATE recommended 75%. I'm hoping EFATTAH or TRUX or one of the pro's can tell me what they do. Maybe it's different for static than it is dynamic???

Do you know what it means to purge? Is that different from blowing all your air out (CO2) quickly right before you do your breath hold?

FN

[naiad]

I fill my lungs to 100% (no packing) for dry static. I have found this to work best so far. Maybe someone can explain why they do less?

Lucia

[trux]

While Eric Fattah is indeed a Pro and a former world record holder, I am definitely not. I am an average freediver who just happens to read the DB forum carefully, and uses the forum search function and Google when in doubts or curious about something. Only few questions were never asked here, so if you do in the same way, you usually find the answer fast.

Preparation for a maximum performance was discussed in many excellent threads here on DB too, with great participations from Jome, Eric Fattah, Laminar and others. I highly recommend searching them in the archive and reading through. There is also another recent thread about statics with no warm-up, so you will certainly find interesting information there too.

And yes, purge is what you describe.