Aerobic exercises like running, cycling?

[Ubuntu]

I’ll risk another question
When reading about apnea walking, it seems to me to have the same effect as any type of aerobic training. When running or cycling etc, you also run out of oxygen, except you don’t try to hold your breath.
My question is why move slowly (as in walking) while holding your breath if you can move fast (as in running) and breath hard – for the same apnea training?
How much does aerobic fitness in general contribute to static breath holding ability – all other things being equal?

[chrismar]

Aerobic fitness does not help static breath hold at all. In fact it may be actively detrimental.*

The reason for apnea walking, etc is that it is close to pure anerobic lactic training. Very little other training comes close. Running, cycling etc are all primarily aerobic, with some anerobic alactic and a bit of anerobic lactic thrown into the mix. There is a complicated physiological answer to the question, but the simple answer is that the kind of fitness you'd build up in other sports isn't nearly as helpful in freediving as you might think.

*This is my opinion, from my limited personal experiences and observations.

[Ubuntu]

wow! This goes against one's logic thinking doesn't it - like many other things that we see through the eyes of a layman like me.
I train with weights on weekday mornings - been doing that for years and actually enjoying it. I train hard with consequent high level of muscle fitness. (that's to say for a geriatric of 60 years!) How would you rate the effects of that on breath hold ability?

[jome]

Hi, in my opinnion and experience aerobic or muscle fitness does not really help breath hold ability. However it can help in the "moving disciplines" that you are generally fit, but not much for static. The more movement and power needed, the more emphasis. Ie static doesn't need good muscle fitness, dynamic may benefit and in constant there can be a very clear benefit. Even so, training invested in technique will reap bigger benefits than pure strength training for example.

The best training for breath holding is breath holding. However, aerobic or muscle training doesn't hurt as much as people usually think either (again my opinnion and experience).

One thing aerobic training is really good for is developing the condition of your heart and blood vessels. Apnea really pushes your cardiovascular system, the blood pressures you reach in max apnea attempts are off the charts. So even if it doesn't directly improve performance, I definitely recommend aerobic training to supplement apnea training, especially for people who don't have much background other in sports.

For elite freedivers who already have a strong background in sports playing with ideas like total aerobic ban may be worthwhile to experiment with. Their heart and blood vessels "can take it", and there may (or may not) be performance benefits.

[TRITON]

My opinion is that in a training cycle for some record attempt of some competition one should start with lots of aerobic activites and strength building in the gym...and as time passes slowly switch to apnea exercises(apnea biking,walking, empty lung statics,apnea exercises in the gym....).It seams very logical to me that you should first prepare your cardiovascular system and muscles for the loads and stress in apnea exercises and max attempts.And as Jome said it greatly depends of the "sport background" of a certain individual.

[Ubuntu]

Comment by Jome on blood pressure comes as a surprise to me! Had not seen it anywhere in reading the beginners threads.
With all the talk on safety, this seems like an issue. Nobody wants to end up with a stroke for the sake of breath hold.
Thanx

[rogam44]

Off topic. I think blood pressure may be issue even in cycling if you do it in a wrong way. In early spring I went on my bike and I didn't follow first rule of cycling: "You will never cross the anaerobic threshold without a reason". My heart rate was at 198bpm on that bloody hill and at home I measured my blood pressure and values were 140/126.

I think that interval training may help you in apnea disciplines. It surely helps me.

Jiri B

[cdavis]

The blood pressure thing is extremely interesting, especially for us "nearly geriatric" freedivers. Sounds strange, but it is really quite logical. The body is compensating for dropping 02 levels by increasing blood pressure, helping push 02 from the blood to the brain. Make your doc crazy if you get a BP measurement done while in a long breath hold. Scares me when I do it for fun.

I also have some concern about strokes due to hi BP. Docs have told some of my friends with heart problems that freediving is off limits for them, for that reason. However, among healthy divers, I've never heard of any problems that might be traced to this issue.

Connor

[Mullins]

I thought BP needed to be consistently high to cause strokes, and that short duration peaks and troughs were fine. I have very high BP whenever it's measured, but after wearing a 24hr monitor it showed BP to average out and the cardiologist was fine with that.

I've always considered aerobic conditioning to be something that doesn't affect max breathhold directly, but is very helpful in allowing you to handle and recover from a heavy anaerobic training load.

[cdavis]

Long term hi BP damages the blood vessels, making them more susceptible to all types of strokes and lots of other nasty problems. Transient hi BP may not do long term damage, but some strokes are caused by blood vessels rupturing in the brain. Seems like there should be some level of risk in that alone. I just don't know how much. I know some docs don't like apnea for people with at least some types of bad hearts because of the blood pressure issue.

Anybody out there with a docs educated viewpoint?

Connor

[jome]

Don't know about strokes, but I do know several divers that get clear arrythmias basically every time they try max apnea, but nothing abnormal has been found in their heart function. Other than that perfectly healty, young, active and with healthy life styles.

But I think the bp issue is something especially elderly divers should be aware of. Almost pure speculation but I do believe apnea also to have a positive effect on the cardiovascular system provided it isn't taken too far (too fast). Then again, at least in Finland there are several heart-related deaths in endurance events every year. So far 0 in apnea events. Of course the numbers of participants are hardly comparable.

[cdavis]

You can call me elderly when I'm passing 30 meters on my 85 birthday, not before.