1.30 hours traning - cardio + dyn. apnea. What must be first?

[ZEST]

Hello

I read the forum more then 6 months, but this is my first question.
Every morning I am in the pool.
First I start with cardio traning 45 minutes crawl. Then I rest 5 minutes and start dynamic apnea - 45 minutes.
My question, is this order correct? Or may be first must the apnea training then the cardio?

[gingko]

It depends of what kind of DYN training you do after :
- if it's an hypercapnique training, that's OK.
- if you use to train in hypoxic dives, that's a quite hard way...
You should warm-up your legs (and switch in dive-mode) with more calmness.

.../...

[ZEST]

Originally Posted by gingko

You should warm-up your legs (and switch in dive-mode) with more calmness.

.../...

They are very good warmed, because of the cardio training. When I start the apnea training I swim very slow on the bottom of the pool without fins. In this way I can swim 50 meter, not more.
Is this wrong or not? My target is only to increase my apnea time(dynamic and static).

[WetBoy]

Hi !!

Well your goal is to "My target is only to increase my apnea time". I dont think a 45min long Crawl warm up will make you perform any good apnea times and lenght at all. Your body must be "tired" after 45m crawling in the pool. I have never seen anyone start a warm up for apnea by 45min crawling.

Do a simple test and switch order 1:st apnea 2:nd Cardiotraining.
Before your first dive try a warm up with two-three breathholds lying on back beside pool. Rest 4-5 min before first dive and breath Up...

[trux]

I think neither one, nor the other is ideal. Cardio before apnea will fill your body with acid lactic, decrease the oxygen stocks, and set the organism into high rate metabolism. Definitely bad for maximal attempts, but possibly also not ideal for training. Although usually it is not bad training in worse conditions than you then have at competitions or max attempts, in this case, by setting yourself into a different metabolism mode, you may suppress some desired effects.

And the same goes for the opposite case - cardio after apnea. After apnea, your body metabolism is in slow mode, so training cardio immediately may miss its effect - you will probably get yourself tired quickly, but without any big training physiological effect.

Personally, I'd advise splitting the cardio and apnea into two different days. Or one week training 1:30 only cardio + hypercapnic apnea (short repetitive length with short recovery) + technique; while the other week 1:30 only pure apnea and hypoxic training. It may result in quicker progress than combining cardio + apnea in a single session.

[ZEST]

Originally Posted by trux

Personally, I'd advise splitting the cardio and apnea into two different days. Or one week training 1:30 only cardio + hypercapnic apnea (short repetitive length with short recovery) + technique; while the other week 1:30 only pure apnea and hypoxic training. It may result in quicker progress than combining cardio + apnea in a single session.

Yes I thought same, you just confirmed my thoughts.
I only can not understand this:
cardio + hypercapnic apnea (short repetitive length with short recovery) + technique

What technique you mean?

[salibandy]

Technique = how you swim. If you're using a monofin, you might want to film yourself to see if you're doing it right.

[trux]

Yes, the way you swim, but also drilling starts, duck dives, turns, breathing, count-down and surface protocol, hydrodynamism; selective training of specific muscle groups; trying different styles, training securing and safety, etc. There are many technique specific exercises available in freediving books, or on the web (some of the are listed here: exercise @ APNEA.cz)

[Bill]

Don't want to disagree with anyone but training is a combination of physical, mental and technique. Variety and experiment can be very important, especially in the long run.
A cardio workout can be hard or easy as you want. The heart monitor will tell you how hard the heart and lungs are working, even if the body is tired or sick. You can go over 80% for your 45 minutes and barely drag yourself out of the pool, after or you can do 70% and speed up recovery from apnea or weight training. Same way, a gentle 15-20 km bicycle ride to the pool will have no affect on your performance, once you get used to the routine.

[trux]

Yes, it is sure right that you can combine both, finding an equilibrium that allows doing both without influencing the performance too much. On the other hand when you do cardio with the purpose to improve your cardiac output and overall physical condition, you should probably do it pretty close to the max effort. The same goes for apnea - if you want to improve and adapt your organism to it, you should do it close to the max. I can barely imagine though doing both cardio and apnea with the maximal effort without one having negative impact on the other.

On the other hand, if you rather train for real-life (recreational) diving or spearfishing, where you first have to swim a long distance, then dive, and then swim back again, then indeed such combined training may be a good preparation.

EDIT: somehow I always compare my apnea trainings (especially the static ones) to yoga. And also at yoga, my teachers advised avoiding cardio training, increased physical effort, and food for several hours both before and after the yoga lesson. I find it quite well corresponding to freediving too. However, I am in no way a training expert, so do not take my words for given. Hopefully others will peek in, who understand better the way the body adapts during a training.

[ZEST]

First I want to Thank you all here for your great help !!!

Yes I am spearo. This is my big hobby. You know sometime you have to fight with strong currents or to swim more than 30 min to reach the spot. Thats why I do cardio too. But the most important for me is to increase my apnea.

Currently I can not swim more than 50 meters(apnea 50-60 seconds) in the pool. I am without fins and without neck lead.
Is this level too low? I do training more than 8 months. At the beginning my max was 30 meters, 8 months later I added only 20 meters more. I think that I do something very wrong.