Dry training to hold breath

[Nicoolai]

Hi guys,
I'm starting spearfishing with some friends, and would like to improve the time I can spend under water.
I realize some of it will come as I get more used to swimming in the gear, but what can I do, OUTSIDE of the water, to improve?
Do I just follow the methods in the free-diving forum section? Is it a matter of doing O2 and CO2 tables? Are they effective and how do I make a table?

I'm totally new, and I have not been able to find any courses I can take, in my area. I will stick to dry-training, till I get more used to it.

Thank you!

 

[charlie.]

apnea walks are good. i do them every time im walking about. good little thing to fit training round day to day life

 

[Nicoolai]

apnea walks are good. i do them every time im walking about. good little thing to fit training round day to day life

Thanks, I will try to look at that.

 

[Taff500]

Hi. Have a look at www.Pro2fit.com. Ive just started my training program recently. Its lung capacity training for more co2 intake. Hope this helps

Rob

 

[PJB]

Hi guys,
I'm starting spearfishing with some friends, and would like to improve the time I can spend under water.
I realize some of it will come as I get more used to swimming in the gear, but what can I do, OUTSIDE of the water, to improve?
Do I just follow the methods in the free-diving forum section? Is it a matter of doing O2 and CO2 tables? Are they effective and how do I make a table?

I'm totally new, and I have not been able to find any courses I can take, in my area. I will stick to dry-training, till I get more used to it.

Thank you!

Hey Nicoolai. Apnea is a sport of 'irony': while it has a growing body of medical knowledge behind it, this knowledge has not yet been able to fully explain the disconnect between theory and results on the individual level. Different strategies seem to work for different individuals, indicating that the mental (and even emotional) aspects of the sport are perhaps as important as physiology. So they are still searching. That said, here are some things to think about: i) apnea walking can be very useful, but if done incorrectly the results will disappoint. Quality over quantity is the key; few intense repetitions followed by rest DAYS in between, rather than volume. Then ii) apnea requires flexibility and relaxation in the diaphragm, not strength - which is what the gadgets like Pro2Fit tend to build. Feedback from Umberto Pelizzari at Apnea Academy (http://www.apnea-academy.com/) is that strength comes largely at the cost of flexibility, resulting in earlier onset of contractions. But as I said, everyone's different so experiment and see what works for you. Change one thing at a time or you'll never know what worked. Cheers

 

[Nicoolai]

Thank you for your answers guys.
I've been googling apnea walking a bit, but what is the correct way to do it? Is it not simply a matter of walking around, while holding your breath? Is there some for dummies guide, that shows the correct way?

 

[PJB]

Thank you for your answers guys.
I've been googling apnea walking a bit, but what is the correct way to do it? Is it not simply a matter of walking around, while holding your breath? Is there some for dummies guide, that shows the correct way?

Hey Nicoolai. There's no end to the volume of apnea walking advice you'll find on the 'net. But if you really intend to get into the sport properly then I have 2 suggestions for you at this time: you can spend a lot of time and effort picking advice off the 'net, hoping you will find the right stuff for you, or you can take the shortest route by making an investment in a good foundation. If you want to understand apnea walking I suggest you make contact with Aharon Solomons at www.freedivers.net. I have direct experience of his approach to this, and the results are proven. It would be inappropriate for me to give his training techniques away in a public forum, so I'd prefer you get this intel from Aharon directly; he's an approachable guy with a wealth of knowledge. Secondly I suggest you start off with the best technical foundation possible, and for that I recommend you consider attending one of Pelizzari's Apnea Academy 'Stages' sometime. Between those 2 I think you'll find what you're looking for.

 

[Nicoolai]

Thanks PJB, I'll give those options a try.

 

[growingupninja]

A lot of 'pure' freediver training is geared towards line diving for depth, where the diver has plenty of time to prepare, has a bouy to rest upon (as opposed to trying to maintain position in a current as a spearfisherman might), and the diver can afford to completely relax and close his/her eyes during the dive and totally zone out during the dive. And they may be training to do only ONE dive per day.

Spearing training has a different focus. While you need to be doing it right, a higher volume is useful since you may never do a max dive over the course of the day but you can easily be doing dozens and dozens of various drops in an uncontrolled environment with changing conditions, currents, structures, and visibility. Exercises that develop hypoxic cardio ability are of great benefit to spearfishermen--you need to be able to maintain and continue your work level at all times, dive over and over, stay alert, and have the reserve power to deal with the unexpected.

Hypoxic cardio is super easy to train on land or in a gym. Just do steady state, low intensity cardio (no more than 70% max HR) with a breathhold component--pedal a bike, walk on an eliptical, etc. Alternate hold and breathe cycles, depending on your ability. Try and keep your rest time as short as possible, and hold times should be challenging but nowhere near your max or you will become mentally exhausted very quickly. For beginner you can try something like 20 secs hold/40 secs breathe. Then you move up to 25 secs hold/35 breathe, and so on. To see much benefit you would need to do at least 15 - 20 mins total for two or three times a week, and it is important that you maintain your cycle for the entire 15 - 20 minutes. Similarly, you can also do CO2 or O2 tables while doing continuous steady state, low intensity cardio.

Static tables will provide very little physiological benefit although if you are complete beginner they may be helpful to get over some mental humps. Hypoxic cardio will also improve your static ability very quickly; if you become conditioned to doing work while holding your breath and with very little recovery time, when you remove the work component and add recovery time breath hold will be very easy.

Deeply hypoxic or lactic training is easy to overtrain but you can do hypoxic cardio every day....

(and all this is assuming you are in reasonably good cardio shape to start with--able to jog at least a couple miles without stopping or keeling over from a heart attack)

 

[myfish]

I do accept that some dry training can help, or transcribe to actual underwater times however ...

It is dangerous to believe or take this as fact as many other things, get in the way.

I remember many years ago, I had a basic 2:45 static yet, couldn't manage more than 45 seconds at 5 meters in murky vis. So to drop down, taking dry statics as a baseline, IMHO, is a mistake.

Things like clarity, warmth, depth, weight, buoyancy, your duck dive etc will all have a massive influence on your actual bottom time.

Just the other day, I did a drop in 12 meters, good vis, felt warm and surfaced to find the dive time was 2:18. My point being, I didn't hyperventilate to do that, nor static train recently, just dive. I wasn't counting, or clock watching, just relaxed and waiting. I surfaced and was pretty pleased as in essence, I could have stayed, longer. No point but, I could have.

A few dives later, I consciously tried to beat it and failed, again, and gain because I was conscious of it.

Dry training certainly helps but, diving and being comfortable with your surroundings (swell, vis, warmth etc) have a far greater influence IME.

I know many won't agree but experience and time in the water and letting go, will bring faster results than 'training for expectation' IMHO.

 

[mariusshobo]

I've tried to do dry apnea but with me it does not work. I just can't concentrate.

 

[oldfather]

Not to worry mariusshobo.
I am also one that have got a treacherous brain, prone to focusing on all sorts in stead of relaxing completely.
I use this ability to hyper focus on something other than trying to relax. I am sure there is a bit of waste (o2 consumption wise) having the neurons firing off like a fire cracker, but the benefit is that I can get completely carried away exploring whatever new thing I have got to play around with in my head so that I completely forget that I am holding my breath.

I do get reminded of it when contractions start but if you practice at focusing your brain on something, and over time get a few things that you could have ready to focus on again when a contraction or a noise or swallowing or whatever distract you. But I don't try to relax as such, or concentrate. Just allow the brain to do what it likes and go with it. I suppose in time I will get better and learn to let go altogether, but one have to start somewhere, right?

 

[mariusshobo]

@ oldfather
Have we met? hahahah! I mean you are right. And I'm not worried.
I just go to the pool and do active apnea and relaxing.

Unfortunately I don't have the sea nearby, but Myfish is perfectly right: the best prep for spearfishing is ... spearfishing.
But (and I almost hate Myfish being able to spearfish in the afternoon - and posting videos of it!) we are not all that fortunate!

 

[oldfather]

We might well have met at some incarnation.
I don't like killing so much but I love looking and getting right up close to the sea creatures.
Annoyingly, like Myfish, I live right by the sea and have the luxury of jumping in almost at all hours, providing I can sneak away from work. The main drawback I have is not having a buddy, which can be painful, knowing you have perfect warm clear waters waiting for you, but..... be ready to take chances, alone.