Falcon vs. Mustang

[syn-]

I've been looking to buy a pair of Falcon 80s, but it appears that those have been discontinued by C4. The Falcon 25s are still available and the Mustang 80s are on the way now. So my question is, are there any people out there currently diving with the Mustang fins that have some input on how they perform, what they feel like, etc? I don't know anyone with a set and i've certainly never tried them, so I'm flying blind here. Any information would be great!

-syn

 

[Bill]

I know two divers using Mustangs and we both are having trouble with the fit and chafing. We both tried to wear them barefoot. I talked to a rep and he warned me that they are designed to be worn with sox. The fin and the blades are made very well and the left foot is the most comfortable fin (out of hundreds) that I've ever used. I hesitate to talk about size but again I was told to get one size bigger.
Something strange is happening. The OMER 42-44 have fit very well for years and my new pair is one size to big. I'll figure it out.

 

[ADR]

If your bike is also seeming larger than you remember there could be a mature reason for it all!

 

[Bill]

'muture' ??
What can I say Andy, I have good news and bad, for young blokes. Some things get harder with age. Eyeballs, arteries and climbing hills are the only ones that I remember.

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

Hi Syn and Bill (there's a familiar name and avatar )

Syn your questions are timely and Bill your opinion is as well, I'll explain.

C4 Falcons are still much more popular among new divers buying their first set of carbon fins than the Mustangs because the Mustangs are still relatively new, I think they've been out a couple years now.

Like anything new, I've seen the same reluctance in freediving equipment with the onset of long blade fins, carbon fins, european style guns, and open cell wetsuits/camouflage wetsuits...to give a few examples. Time has confirmed their place in the market and proven their effectiveness before gaining widespread acceptance.

C4's Mustang fins are the same, the first pair of fins designed with separate L and R foot-pockets. The important thing to keep in mind here is the fit. Obviously no matter how revolutionary they are if they don't fit your foot they're not much use to you. Make a deal with your dealer to exchange them for your second choice fins with a normal type foot-pocket if they don't fit you properly. With five sizes chances are they will fit.

The big difference that most seasoned divers used to traditional fins will have a hard time with is that rather than adjust your kick ot the fins you'll have to just let the fins adjust to your kick. The brain behind the fins is that you can kick more naturally as if you were swimming in a pool doing free-style and just like you would swimming off the bottom headed to the surface without fins. The ergonomic shape of the pocket a more natural kick and for many the big plus, save energy. Once you narrow down the correct blade thickness and style (spearfisherman read SuperFalcon rather than Mustang blades), based on your weight and body size and general diving preference, the 25/30/40 hardness choices will give you even more of a personalized fit. Like a bike, a pair of skis, or a pair of tennis shoes the fit and the style of diving determines the fin choices/blade stiffness your left with.

The 80's for doing anything BUT record apnea style freediving aren't reccomended, particularly not for spearfishing or recreational freediving. The 80's are deisgned solely for vertical work and sculling or doing any conventional type of diving is cumbersome with them.

And Bill, to answer your question directly next year C4 is coming out with a new version of the pocket, same look just more comfortable and a touch wider in the upper part of the foot. Price will go up slightly too. So if you've tried the Mustang and these are the issues you're having these will hopefully address them.

On a personal note I first tried a set of Mustang 40's last year and they were just too stiff for my style of diving and I stuck to my Rekord 3's. Now I've been alternating between these and the Super Falcon 30 version of the Mustang (the one's without the flaps) and I'm really satisfied with them and enjoy diving with them.

Hope this helps, clear waters,

Mark Laboccetta
Omer & C4 USA

 

[Bill]

Thanks for jumping in Mark. I'm trying to find the perfect fin this year while I get back in shape and relearn the clearing process. I'm using -30s and -80s in OMER pockets (also have a 40 blade) and the 30 Mustangs. The "brain behind the fins" is amazing. Unlike the 80s, where it takes time to learn the wider kick, the Mustangs will work with the wider kick, get off the surface better with a 'normal' kick and even went faster than monofins on the first try with my crude dolphin kick. Coming up from 50+ the 80s are great but it will be another year before the new hip can handle them or a mono. I'm going to try a 30/40 combination next, to accomodate the weak leg. The dealer here was a delight to work with.
If you hear of anyone coming to Kona with Mustangs, besides the PFI team, let me know please.

 

[syn-]

Hey Mark, thanks for the info, its really appreciated. Just one question, when you say the Mustangs allow for a more nature kick, do you mean a shorter kick with more repetitions rather than a slower kick with longer strides? Thats where my mind goes when I think of swimming without a fin.

As for whether to go with 80's or not, I'm buying these with the sole intent of using them for pursuing depth, so the cumbersome nature of the fins for spearfishing and just diving around shouldn't be a problem. Maybe I should get a monofin?!


-syn

 

[GreekDiver]

Mark turned me onto the Rekords and im very happy with them. Im not interested in freediving super deep but they brought me back up from 137ft just fine in the PFI class. Im more into spearfishing 100ft and less. Hope this helps.

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

Hey guys,

The PFI Team, mainly Kirk and Mehgan, also started using the Mustangs with mixed results from what I could gather from Kirk. Sent him a different size foot-pocket than the ones we had originally and he seems to like them much better now.

Syn I think if you're purely going to concentrate on depth and not going to be fishing with them Mustang 80's would be the best and only candidates for you in the 80 grade fin since it's the only 80 C4 still currently produces. Keep in mind a mono-fin is not for everyone and if you're not a stronger butterfly kicker than a freestyle/scissors kicker they will actually hamper you a lot. I hate mono-fins because when I swam in college my butterfly kick was horrendous and I am as good at moving my hips as I was at my first highschool dance rofl

There is another point I left out in my previous post where I have to agree with Bill. The Mustang foot-pocket either fits you or it doesn't. It could be more universally fitting when a softer compound version of the pocket comes out next year. While mine are the correct size for my foot (47-48/13) there is a an overwelming sensation that the pocket is a bit overbearing after prolonged use and envelopes your foot so thoroughly it feels more like a snowboard boot and binding or a hiking boot compared to a traditional fin foot-pocket. This is not necessarily bad, rather it's invasive in a good way. In other words you're in there when they're on and laced up.

This is the reason I go back and forth between what I retain are the two best fins currently in production right now in my experience selling and using long fins all these years, the Rekord 3 and the Mustang Super Falcon 30. After using both of these even the Falcon 30's or 40's that were my favorites seem a much lesser fin now-a-days, and I think the Falcons have the best track record of any other carbon fin on the market thus far. The Rekord 3's are a bit less overwelming than the Mustang/SuperFalcon, easier on the foot, more comfortable in 30-80ft or so and less invasive. I should clarify the Super Falcon is just a Falcon shaped blade version for the Mustang footpocket system. But in a situation like this past weekend when we were diving 100'115' for Cubera snapper the SuperFalcon 30 is definitely a better deep freediving fin.

What I meant by a more natural kick was that the Mustang pocket is ergonomically shaped to the foot much more than a regular flat pocket. Just like the bend in the blades, the pocket is bent as well and conforms to the shape and angles of the foot. The shorter kicks with more repetitions or slower kick with longer strides have nothing to do with this, that is more the function and length of a blade (short scuba fin/longfin kick). I didn't really want to get into all the fin mechanics and drag this out because articulating this is much harder for me than just showing someone in a pool. Proper fin mechanics like swim mechanics take time and experience to develop and some have different styles that vary in efficiency but in a nutshell:

When you kick or swim down the pool without fins you don't drop your knees. Your kick is more like a boat prop's with a shorter stroke and your feet flap rapidly up and down after you followed it through by your power kick from the thighs/shaft and to a lesser degree leg below the knee joint. In other words your thighs are always your primary muscle, the lower leg below the knee joint secondary and the feet like a prop just do in motion what comes as a result of the prior two.

Using long fins the correlation changes. A much lower rpm stroke from the thigh follows by dropping your knee more to keep from splashing the fin out of the water with the extension which is then followed through with the kick of the fin. Here you let the efficiency of the blade go through it's motion and make it's sin curve to get the most efficiency out of the fin. That's where the difference in blade stiffnesses comes in...to further optimize this relationship.

When you kick without fins you don't do this because your feet are short so you don't drop your knees and rely on your feet nearly half as much to pick up the slack.

Having said this I don't know if I'm making any sense here because swimming and fin mechanics are not so strait forward otherwise everyone would be an olympic swimmer. However, as it relates to the C4 Mustangs there is less bending and knee dropping going on to get the most efficiency out of the fin and this translates into a more comfortable and natural kick - at least that's the theory!

 

[Fondueset]

Nice dissertation, Mark.
I like the idea of less knee bend - and if you can get thrust comparable to a mono! Very cool.

One thing I have noticed is that monofins are not so good if you have to hold station against a current.

 

[Jon]

After using both of these even the Falcon 30's or 40's that were my favorites seem a much lesser fin now-a-days

So then, what's OMER's trade in policy on my Falcon 30's for a pair of Mustang 30's?


Jon

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

I don't know but Omer doesn't have anything to do with it...
I would actually have to ask C4 what their trade policy is for the same query and don't think they'd be too open to entertain the idea

 

[Jon]

I thought as much.:hmm

If/when I break my carbon monofin I may have to invest in a pair of Mustang 80's.

Jon

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

Here's a picture of my friend Rabih Dabboussi, a guy I've been diving with for 10 years. He speared this 45lb cubera snapper at 100' then we put another spear in the fish at 115' before we could get the fish off the bottom. He was wearing his 42-44 Millenium footpocket C4 Flap 40's while I used the Super Falcon 30's. The gun is an Omer (imagine that) Cobra 130 that he rigged with a slip tip.

 

[syn-]

Ahhh, Mr. Dabboussi! I didn't know you guys dove together. My dive partner here in Charleston, Chad Harrelson, knows both of you guys to some degree or another. Small world. Anyway, thank you so much for all of the detail... you certainly didn't have to go into it that much and I appreciate that you did. For now though, I think I'm going to give a mono a try, BUT I am also going to switch my normal spearfishing fins to carbons, so I will be getting a pair of C4s for that. ...they'll just have to be a bit shorter than the 80s.

Thanks again for all of the information!


-Lee

 

[Butts_omer]

I am also interested in the 80s. i have a more wide foot so i figure the mustang foot pockets wont be a good selection for me.And i can save 200 $ if i order just the blade and use my foot pockets i have now. i think ill be okay.right?

 

[fabrice]

Hi all,

I'm just jumping in on this thread as I have pair of mustangs 80 and want to share my experience with them. My foot is not very wide, (best previous footpockets for me were the Cressi), and the Mustang is perfect for this kind of foot.

It's true that you need some time to adapt your finning with the fins. At first I though that they were quite inefficient, but after a few sessions this disappeared.
What I enjoy the most with them is that they are perfect for slow, relaxed movements, and also quite good at surface swimming. I'm using them for recreationnal freediving (eg. uw photography), from 0 to 30m, usually diving FRC. Their length is absolutely not an issue for me for this kind of diving.

One minor defect is the white "C4" painting. It should be on the back of the fin to help my buddy track me...

Fabrice

 

[Janner]

Im looking at buying a pair of c4 falcon 40's and would like to put them on omer footpockets. Is it pretty straight forward to attach the blades with glue to the foot pockets (from reading previous posts i gather its better to glue the fins together rather than using screws)?

Please excuse my ignorance, as i've only ever used screws to attach the blades to footpockets previously.

Thanks, Ian

 

[Jon]

I had a pair of 40's and used both the glue and the screws. I've seen people, who travel a lot, just use the screws and some zip-ties to hold the rails on.

Jon

 

[Diego Alatriste]

Dear Mark,
I am profoundly grateful for the information in your postings on the C4.
If you are not tired of the toipic, please do tell:
Why did you go for the Super Falcon blade and did not choose the Mustang blade? Why did you prefer a no-flap to a flap blade? Is the flap the only difference behind your preference?
I live in Perth. I intended to buy a softer Mustang from C4 in Airuno, Italy, because we do not have them in Western Australia (closest location I found is NZ but the guy did not have a Mustang to sell). When do you think are the new Mustangs due next year?
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Best regards,
Diego the Russian