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Freediving Death...

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The other thing to discuss is how "freediving" is cast as a competitive or spearo activity, with either a tag or a fish as the goal. Both activities require their own safety protocols. By definition a competitive freediver is closer to their limit while diving on a line, and yes, they should have several safety systems to watch over them. Spearoes probably need to work on establishing internal decision making protocols for when to let the fish get away and live to spear another day.

All this stuff scares away people who want to enjoy the ocean underwater. We need to discuss and think about the realities of diving in situations other that competition. AIDA has done a lot for improving safety, but I believe that it and other instructors have a harder time making recommendations for people who want to try freediving at their own beach, in whatever conditions they find themselves in.

To me, freediving is certainly not about going up and down a descent line with a counter weight system in place. I believe it is possible to develop a sensible safety protocol for recreational freediving in which the primary responsibility for your own safety lies on the freediver's own shoulders--and yes, this can and should be taught so that each new recreational freediver isn't starting from scratch. This has to evolve more, otherwise freediving will remain an extreme sport, and not something you can do on a vacation on the spur of the moment.

The proof of this is that I've seen freediving instructors of freediving not following their own strict safety protocols. Why? Because they are impractical in most cases for enjoying a recreational dive. But for various reasons, no one wants to sit and think about what is practical and reasonable.

Paragliding is a dangerous sport and yet people still go up in the air by themselves and drift long distances. Yet, the sport as a recreational and competitive activity thrives. I would argue that it is more dangerous that freediving - the difference is that safety has been well thought out from a recreational AND competitive point of view.

Pete
 
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On another topic:

I think it is an interesting point that I hear that many gung-ho spearoes who take the PFI course and are encouraged to push their limits in a controlled environment and experience a blackout are humbled by the experience and gain some kind of restraint from then on. I think that that's a good thing.

However, what about the rest of the aquaphilic public who want to experience "safe" freediving and never want to experience a blackout? I think they deserve a well thought out description of how not to blackout in their everyday non-competitive freediving activities.

I think those of us who have trained for competitions in sport freediving become too cavalier when it comes to blackouts and sambas.

I personally have never blacked out in the ocean or in dynamic. I have had a few blackouts and sambas in static during training but never in competition. I wasn't traumatized by them, but neither were they particularly uplifting. But the attitude in the sport freediving world is that they are no big deal because of the safety/buddy system. However, I think this perspective makes it very hard for recreational freedivers to learn how to develop their own personal safety margins/protocols.

I realize now that the concept of a blackout scares most people half to death. If you turn blue in front a parent of loved one after a long static it can be enough to make them cry. :duh

It is difficult to impress upon newcomers to the sport that they need to be very careful - but when we tell them about the safety protocols used by competitors and then they discover that counter-weights, "one-up, one-down" buddy protocols have limited use for their own freediving situation, what are they to do? Furthermore, I believe instructors make a lot of assumptions about teaching safety protocols because they assume some adherence to sport safety protocols. This is misleading and dangerous.

I have pushed my limits and have had a very enjoyable 6 years of recreational freediving. Perhaps it's my character and approach to freediving that has kept me safe so far, but I also think that it is possible to fashion rules for diving without a line or even by yourself, so that freediving is no more dangerous than any other complex sport. In my mind, to say that it's not possible is just sticking your head in the sand hoping that the problem of people that die solo freediving or with friends will just go away spontaneously.

I dive with a buddy, with indirect supervision (ie. we keep track of where we are and dive times), but we both know that if something goes wrong, there's not much we can do, and as such, we alter our diving habits to correspond to the level of risk. This is not to say that an accident can't happen, but we've both spent lots and lots of time figuring out what is safe and what is iffy and always talk about it. To me this is far safer and far more enjoyable. And in situation when I dive alone, I scale these protocols back even more. But ultimately, I've had the benefit of competitive experience and time to formulate these boundaries for myself. Newcomers do not always have that opportunity and so I think it's good for us to discuss it openly.

As always, my point of view.

Pete
 
This topic reminds me a lot of teenagers and sex. In the old days, the protocol/curriculum was to tell teens just 'never have sex.' However, they would anyway, and get pregnant or catch diseases etc... So, in most places the curriculum changed to 'don't have sex, but if you do, this is what you should do...'

It is sort of like telling everyone that 'you must dive in a strict buddy one up one down system on a line or in big visibility...'

You don't tell them how to dive alone safely, or how to dive in a less controlled environment safely. You figure you are controlling your liability by just telling them to dive with strict safety standards. But the safety standards are far too impractical, so they will be ignored, and without the proper knowledge people end up killing themselves.

It is a common myth that there is no way to dive alone safely. The truth is that a few divers around the world have progressed gradually and systematically, and have learned (oh LORD) to push their limit almost to the MAX, without any buddy or supervision.... and these people have done so hundreds of times and are still alive. You could call them the luckiest people alive, but after a certain amount of repetitions it becomes clear that it is less about luck and more about some sort of systematic method they developed.

Now, I don't advocate pushing 99% of your max without supervision, but if there are people who do that year after year after year, and never suffer any accidents, then it MUST be possible for people to dive with little supervision, to perhaps 70-80% of max, and be very safe.

Instead of shunning or avoiding this topic, this topic alone should a primary focus of freedivers -- almost all freedivers end up as instructors of some sort, even if it is just giving tips to friends -- and if most of the freediving population had good knowledge of safety protocols for unsupervised diving, then fewer accidents would happen.
 
So what protocol would use use Eric?

I bet I have close to a 1000 solo scuba dives under my belt and never had an issue, but every scuba diver I've know who's died either started out or ended up solo when it happened. Since I had kids I severely limit the amount of solo diving that I do, even though I never had an issue with it, just to make sure that I am there for my kids.

Now, if you have a way to freedive solo in a much safer manner I would like to hear it because I can't get a regular buddy to dive with for the life of me!:head It would be so much easier to just jump in a lake anytime I wanted to by myself, but after seeing, and helping out with, a few blackouts it really makes you think twice.

If your some young, single, guy with no dependents I believe you have the right to go and try and kill yourself anyway you want so long as you don't take anyone with you. If that means deep air diving, solo freediving, solo rebreather diving, Base jumping, or lion taming then have at it.

I have been anxiously awaiting the development of the freediver's safety vest ever since I first heard about such a device 5 years ago. I consider myself a very safe diver with a prefect safety record but it's getting to the point that no buddy means no diving and I'm not ready to give up on diving after all the years I've invested in it.

I would really appreciate it if you could give me more details on how you can make it safer to freedive solo- feel free to contact me off the list if you don't want to divulge too much out of safety/liability sake.

Thanks,

Jon
 
After reading these posts I would like to add my 2 cents. I am a freedriver on the Norcal coast. Up here it gets rough and those divers that take risks eventually suffer the consequences.
I dive solo and take no risks, period. I don’t dive deeper then 30ft or so. Never dive unless it’s calm and never dive around any kind of boat traffic. But it’s the ocean so I have the luxury of choosing where I dive.
Why solo? Because I like to swim, I don’t use a tube just strap a stringer, my ab iron and bag to a second weight belt. My regular weight belt had pockets which I fill with used tire weights and if I get tired or to much weight from abalone I just drop some weight and float. This is a different way to dive around here and not many are in physical shape to do it.
And I have a world class place that I keep secret, very secret. Lots of fish, so many that at time I will hand feed them. And some big fish to 30 lbs. Lots of abalone and if I want I can swim with the harbor seals all in a safe protected place. Very very very secret.
 
Eric and Laminar have raised the 64 million dollar question. I wish I had an answer. It is like sex, people are going to dive alone (me included) and without what is considered good safety protocols. I used to think being safe should be easy, just don't "push it". I pushed it for years and never had a problem except for a couple of vision sambas when I was a damn fool teenager and Really pushing it. Why shouldn't that do? However, after following DB for a while and reading more than a few reports of divers early in training having sambas and BOs and experianced divers having the same at times where they didn't think they were pushing the limits, I'm don't think "not pushing it" is enough. I suspect there is a wide individual and situational variation in suseptability to low 02 problems that will be next to impossible to predict.

This seems like a prime area for some physiological research, maybe incorporating both novice and experianced divers, breathing rates, blood flow, dive response and who knows what else, looking at how far you can push and be SURE not to be near a problem. Maybe some protocols could be developed from that. Its one heck of a great goal, however hard it may be. Definately needs talking about.

Connor
 
Hey guys!
Thanks for all the replies and info! This has really turned into an interesting thread. Ive decided (since im doing just recreational diving) that im going to play it kinda easy. I still love to push myself a bit here and there, but for the most part, Im going to try and just enjoy a couple of minutes underwater. ive got way to many years ahead of me to throw it away now.
:)
 
If I allways dove with a buddy I'd dive about 3 times a year. Nobody but my daughter dives here - and she's busy with school. I literally would not be able to dive enough to justify the gear.
 
Ok, now that the cat's out of the bag, I would like to hear what are good practices for diving solo.

I get asked that question pretty much every time I present the "never dive alone" rule. I have formulated it somewhat to "never dive alone if there are ANY performance oriented dives". Then I explain that if one chooses to dive solo, please use common sense and then explain what are the risks of doing so. I know I cannot force anyone to buddy dive, even if it would be convenient for my own ass. But I will damn well try to make sure that they have at least been warned about the most common pitfalls.

But the problem is, very much like with teenage sex or drugs or what ever, even with the open minded "common sense" approach, you just cannot reach everybody. There are always those gung-ho types that will go and do it no matter what you say. For them I can do very little except wish good luck and hope that they eventyally come to discover by them selves after years of diving what I could have told them in five minutes...

Personally I believe that a certain amount of controlled limit pushing is good for knowing how you can be safe (alone or with a buddy). And a certain amount of experience is essential too...

I like to teach that even with a buddy, the diver is 100% responsible for their own safety. No one is responsible for you, but your self. The safety systems and protocols are just to cover the buddys ass, so to speak. But I guarantee you that every time you go down, he is just hoping that everything goes fine and he can start his dive too. The buddy is not your personal safety system. It's just a guy who likes to dive too and hopes he never has to lift a finger to help you...But hopefully is able to if there is an accident (the definition of an accident being something that happens unexpectedly, not something you are waiting to happen. Getting in trouble without "having an accident" is just being stupid or ill informed).

Now, I cannot avoid the cliche...But diving can never be 100% safe, or sex, or driving a car...But using common sense one can make it several fold safer than without it :)

I think even more than with the teen sex, there is an analogy with drugs. At least in Finland, the way to tell kids about drugs used to be to scare them to death with stories about how even one puff from cannabis will send you in a downward spiral ending up a toothles dead prostitute or something like that. All well and good, most kids stayed away from 'em. But like always, some damn daredevils just had to try pot and then tell the others "hey, I did it...I didn't die or anything, just felt kind of silly..." After that, the reaction is "so, what else have they been lying about?!?". The whole credibility of the parent/teacher front crumbles to pieces that very instant.

So the very same with diving...I try to avoid putting my self too high on my moral ivory tower simply because I know some of them will try it anyway, and I would like to retain at least some level of credibility as "a guy who knows stuff" :) But as an instructor, you have to be in tune with the students and constantly sort of sense what kind of student you are dealing with. For some the moral sermon will work the best. That's what they expect form an instructor - set of guidlelines written in stone for "doing it right". Others, well they don't respond well at all to such approach. As I believe that an instructors most important job is to give who ever is willing to listen, as much information as possible to help keep him alive, I will then adapt usually to a different style and approach the subject more subtly. But you cannot just teach a class of mindless drones, or at least I can't and don't want to...Everyone get's something different (depending how receptive they are), but I hope they are all a little bit safer after than they were before...Sometimes you can just spot the guys that you would have as a buddy any day without any training what so ever. You just know they are responsible and know what they are getting into from the first minute. That rare breed that you just have to instantly treat as a friend instead of a student. And you know that they will find their own way, no need to lecture too much..If there's something unclear, they will ask. Regretfully, that attitude, that thing that is the most important thing for a diver, I haven't yet found out how to teach. I guess they are born with it, or then their parents just did a better job or something...I don't know. But I think there is definately a difference in teaching freeidiving to the masses and teaching it to the latter kind of person.

Now, what was I talking about and what did it have to do with anything...Ramble ramble :)
 
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I have been freediving (as a spearo) for nearly thirty years and almost always alone. I have never experienced a blackout or felt dizzy or had to leave the water for any other reason than cold/fatigue/lack of fish etc. Until I stumbled upon DB and had a course at the SETT facility I knew nothing about SWB, Sambas etc. etc. Have I been extremely lucky all those years ? Do some of us intuitively understand our limits underwater and therefore less prone to risk? I haven't changed my spearing habits much since taking the course although I would never attempt deep dives without buddies; I wouldn't have done beforehand either......
 
It seems to me that what it boils down to is knowing your own restrictions and abilities. Improving them in a sound environment and acting responsibly as we would while driving a car, crossing a street or something like that.
Like Jome said for some this comes naturally others have to learn the hard way and some of them arent as lucky as others to actually survive to tell about the lesson they have learned. For myself I also havent heard of all these technical ways to die in the water untill I joined DB and a underwater club that directed me to a guy that does the freediving courses, I too havent changed much when it comes to how I hunt and act when Im in the water as I personally think Im pretty responsible and know what I can do or cant for that matter, but my diving style did change for the better I hope:). For spearos its mostly hard to dive with a buddy so we have to adapt a more self preserving attitude when it comes to diving opposed to someone who freedives just for depth and u/w time with a buddy always present, not that Im saying they take chances, as I dont actually think they do, they act with the same respect to water and their personal limits as all water users they have just trained themselves to bigger times and deeper limits, as most dedicated divers could probably do if they wanted too.
So yea, know your own limitations and if you want to push them be sure to have a safety net at hand that can save your ass if the need arises, also be sure you can do the same for them...
Save Diving
 
ocean_314 said:
And I have a world class place that I keep secret, very secret. Lots of fish, so many that at time I will hand feed them. And some big fish to 30 lbs. Lots of abalone and if I want I can swim with the harbor seals all in a safe protected place. Very very very secret.

Sounds like Gerstle cove:t
 
i just did a search the place i dive is not on any map and does not have a name that i know of.
 
I think part of the safety factor comes from motivation - that is; Why do you dive?

I've been freediving since I was a kid - with a huge hiatus of several decades. I was certified for scuba when I was 16. I freedive because I love being underwater between breaths. To this day I get so excited when I'm going diving that I sometimes have to chew ginger to calm my stomach. I look at my wetsuit, in the back room on it's drying rack, with amazement and wonder at the fact that I actually get to use it. It remains nearly unbelieveable to me that, several times a week - with a five minute drive I can park in a secluded spot, with very few people around, and just step out into the underwater world.

When I am under water all the drive, competitiveness, worry, and other crap that constitutes the surface social world is stripped away - like an oily film that floats off of me as I submerge. I have nothing to prove under there and every thing I do to increase the time I can stay below is done purely for the joy of it.

If I start to feel scattered, driven or tired I take a long, slow surface interval until my breath and being are completely at ease. Sometimes, if I am cold or tired, I'll hang in shallow water and study the colors and brilliant details there.

A couple of days ago I just hung out, motionless, in the rocks along a breakwall, watching a pair of large laketrout not 8 feet away, going round and round in circles in and out of a cave in the rocks as a shimmering latticework of rainbows made by waves and sunlight moved across the green and yellow of the rocks. A cormorant swam along right next to my head - alternately looking at me with one eye on the surface and sticking his head under to check me out there. After a restful surface interval I dove to around 8 meters and nestled into the rocks. The big trout began to come in after a minute or so - swimming 8 or 10 feet in front of me. I looked up and there was one so close to my head that I could clearly see the details of the underside of it's gills. One of these normally very skittish fish came close enough that I touched it - pushing it gently away from the camera. It's just amazing under there - and there is a huge difference in what happens depending on your state.

I like to push my limits and exercise will - but solo recreational dives are not the place for it. It's like the polarity between concentration and awareness - concentration is exclusive - awareness is not. For me recreational diving is mostly about the latter. Of course I have to work pretty hard at times to get pictures and this is why I put rules in place for myself - so I'm prepared to just let go of whatever is going on and surface.

troutturnsun.jpg
 
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ocean_314 said:
Gerstle cove, no thats not the place. I never heard of Gerstel Cove where is it at?

Sorry, I was majorly tongue-in-cheeking. Gerstle cove is a park/preserve in Sonoma county. The conditions you described sound almost too good to be true. You are a lucky diver to have found that. Many of the local dive classes go to Gerstle for their open water experiences. You cannot take game there so the abs are huge and the fish are friendly. Also, you can find lots of weight belts if you look hard enough:)
 
jome said:
I think even more than with the teen sex, there is an analogy with drugs. At least in Finland, the way to tell kids about drugs used to be to scare them to death with stories about how even one puff from cannabis will send you in a downward spiral ending up a toothles dead prostitute or something like that. All well and good, most kids stayed away from 'em. But like always, some damn daredevils just had to try pot and then tell the others "hey, I did it...I didn't die or anything, just felt kind of silly..." After that, the reaction is "so, what else have they been lying about?!?". The whole credibility of the parent/teacher front crumbles to pieces that very instant.
That's true. Scaring people with exaggerated horror stories doesn't achieve anything. The same about 'never dive alone', of course it is a good rule, but since there will always be people who break it, we have to find ways to reduce the risk, not to tell them 'go on then, drown yourself, see if I care'.

Fondueset, I think that's the best way of diving. :)
 
"with a five minute drive I can park in a secluded spot, with very few people around, and just step out into the underwater world."

Now that makes me miss living in Milwaukee.:waterwork I uses to live two blocks from the lake and could pretty much jump in any time I wanted to. If it was too rough to dive I would go out for a paddle instead. When it got really rough I pulled out my boogie board and surfed the waves at a few prime beaches. There wasn't a day i didn't go by the lake because it was also the best darn spot to take my lab for a swim every night after work. On the weekends we would be out teaching students, running charters, picking up odd salvage jobs, etc.

Now I live 90 miles away and even though there are 4 lakes within a short bike ride of my house, they are all so crappy they can really only be enjoyed in the winter time- or early spring. Of course I live in a much nicer city for raising a family, but my diving has certainly suffered for it.

Since we're opening up about how we dive solo, and I'm waiting to hear more form Jome on how he does it, I will share some of the things I do.

First, is to buddy up with scuba divers and join with them on charters. I know that this doesn't keep me as safe as a good freedivng buddy, but i find that there are so many scuba divers around it's just easier to hook up with them- especially when out wreck diving.

Second, applies only to when scooter dive and that's to bring a spare air along with me. My scooter dives are so relaxed that I don't use much energy, but still don't let them get too long for DCS sake. If there's an issue i can go to scuba back-up and come back for the scooter later on. It's not full proof but then solo diving isn't by a long shot.

Last, is counting on contractions. This will NOT work for everyone.I don't advocate that anyone try it- but we're just relaying what we fool ourselves with while solo diving so this is mine. I DO get contractions and know how many I can tolerate on my statics- more than 100. Since I know that I get them and that I am used to so many when training, or diving with a buddy, I go for no contractions when solo diving. I have theorized, perhaps falsely, that this should keep me safe on shallower, recreational, dives. I know that one of my regular buddy's doesn't get any contractions and if he followed this advice it would surely kill him.

As I stated in an earlier post, these are all things that I have done in the past and as I have gone ahead and reproduced I have really started to shy away from all forms of solo diving.

Jon
 
Same here - generally 0 contraction diving. But as Jon said - not everybody has them - and they change even for the same person. Diving with scubies is a new discover for me. I did a bit of it this summer and it was fun - particularly on wrecks.
 
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