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Freediving Death...

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Some thoughts on danger. Two me there are two kinds of accidents that happen in every sport or activity. #1 I will call stupid accidents from doing something stupid yourself like deciding to go for max dynamic in a pool with no buddy and no lifeguard, or speeding late at night after a few drinks of alcohol. #2 I will call random accidents from something happening to you beyond your immidiate control, like having a drunk driver cross into your lane right towrd you or renting SCUBA gear and having the regulator which checked out fine on the boat freeze up underwater.

I have found it very useful looking at how dangerous overall an activity typically is like how many people die per year per 1000 participants (sometimes you have to take and educated guess about this) and then look at what % of accidents are stupid and what % are random. I am a very careful person so my risk of stupid accidents is say 100 times less than typical person. My risk of random accidents is the same as for others (maybe a bit less if I am more prepared).

So when I look at different sports and their dangers I look at my own risk from above. For example I no longer white water kayak as I have seen many expert kayakers being very careful drown and feel 50% to 75% of kayak deaths are mainly random causes. I also don't parachute as though this sport is statistically much safer than kayaking the risks are almost 99% random (assuming you have someone else pack your parachute). Freediving is the exact opposite, it is fairly dangerous though 99% of deaths are from doing something stupid (not that the people who died were stupid, if you could ask them after they died or not was what they did was stupid/ignoratnt I think 99% of them would say yes). So for me being very careful freediving is much much safer than for the typical person. It may seem wrong for me to say this and claim I know this as maybe I am wrong and aren't being careful and will die tomorrow freediving and there is not much way to say for sure that I am right or wrong as there is very limited data for freediving, however from kiteboarding I know that my carefulness has helped me avoid many serious injuries and accidents that my friends who were less careful had while kiteboarding.

So the point of all this is that if you are a very careful person you will greatly limit your risk of stupid accidents and if your are more casual you will increase you risk of stupid accidents while both will have the same risk of random accidents. So figure out which you are or want to be and look at your activites and evaluate risks from this. Another little story here, Chuck Yeager was an US Air Force test pilot which was probably the most dangerous job ever, the average test pilot died after 3 years or something like that. Chuck was very very careful and was injured only once when he ejected and the explosive charge randomly fell on him while he floated down on his parachute and burned his face. While Chuck was flying backup in another plane for others (like being a buddy freediving) none of those people he was safety for ever were injured either. This is statistically amost impossible so proves to me that most accidents being a test pilot are not random but stupid (though this is different than many people's viewpoints).

Another point of this is that if most freediving accidents are stupid than most are avoidable as well so seems very good this talk of safety protocols we all should follow and develop. Cheers Wes
 
Fondueset said:
I know that if the sea has something to show me she will do it in the time I am available, provided I'm properly tuned.

Nicely put fondueset, Amen to that! :)
 
Hi Wes,

Nice post.

Perhaps a better way to start things off is to discuss "what is stupid" in freediving solo, if it is true that stupid things are most often the cause of injury or death:

-not being cautious is stupid
-hyperventilating in general is stupid
-having contractions underwater and not going up to the surface is stupid
-not taking an adequate surface interval for energy stores to recharge is stupid
-expending energy doing some task underwater or on the surface and assuming you'll have the same reserve as you do when doing normal dives is stupid
-not making shallow dives to start off the diving day to see how you are feeling is stupid
-diving while sick is stupid
-"diving by the watch/gauge", meaning trying to reach a certain time or depth or eke out an extra metre or extra 10 seconds so you can brag to your friends later on shore is stupid
-relying on how you feel on the bottom alone is stupid (high O2)
-trying to set a new absolute personal best for yourself alone is really, really stupid
-diving deep and long in unfamiliar waters is stupid
-diving deep and long in areas of high boat traffic is stupid
-drastically changing your diving style without testing it out over time is stupid
-diving while shivering violently is stupid
-diving into your anxiety zone while solo is stupid
-diving with water in your mask is stupid (unless it happens during the dive, then it's just really annoying and scary - this happened to me on a 52m line dive when my mask fell off :duh )
-not trying to find out as much as possible about local conditions and hazards is stupid
-entering a cave or wreck is usually stupid
-ascending really fast is thought to be stupid (DCS) but is still up for debate
-not telling anyone where you are diving is stupid

Random factors:
-fishing line / nets
-really fast currents
-equipment failure
-big fish eating you
-sailboat runs you over (quiet)

Obviously, most of these points need definitions and limitations explained.
 
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Speaking of stupid things - I've made the following observations regarding diving while shivering violently

1> Unless I apply indomitable will - which is another layers of stupid - my times are absymally short

2> All life forms avoid me

A possible exception to the latter is Ling Cod - I was quite cold when I shot the picture of the Ling on my site at 10 meters or something - but then I wasn't shivering violently so never mind. I did show some intelligence by ignoring my impulse to stab the ling cod in the brain with my dive knife and drag it to the surface so I could be more macho than Tyler.
 
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rofl rofl rofl

That's true - the combination of shivering and contractions is another level of discomfort, far worse than either on its own.

I started a thread on who you trust to supervise you.
[ame="http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?t=68314"]Who do you trust?[/ame]
 
This is a great thread and unfortunately I've been so busy that I haven't had time to read through it properly nor reply properly. However I will throw some quick ideas in for solo/unsupervised safety.

#1 a watch which shows surface interval in minutes:seconds is essential
#2 I believe that a diver must be able to feel & sense hypoxia (the reason is not obvious--more later). The only way to learn to feel & sense hypoxia is to get hypoxic. My system of solo diving is reliant on a profound ability to judge one's level of hypoxia. Normally this ability comes from many long dry-land statics (with, sadly, many sambas), but the "samba-training" only needs to occur once in your life ever. It is like riding a bike. Once you can sense the different levels of hypoxia, you never forget how.
#3 Once you have learned to sense hypoxia, the ability is rarely used underwater. Instead, it is used on the surface after a dive to figure out 'how much air you really had left.'
#4 Each day a person's physiology is different. There is no hope of predicting with any good accuracy how well you will dive. The solution is quite simple. Each diving session starts with a short shallow dive. Each dive is further lengthened in time or depth (if necessary). At the end of each dive, the diver judges his hypoxic level. If he had 'lots of air left', then after a sufficient surface interval (thanks to the watch), he can dive again, a bit deeper or a bit longer. This process continues until he surfaces with significant but not dangerous hypoxia -- OR until he starts getting signs of cold or fatigue. Once a dive is done with a detectable hypoxic recovery breathing, then that's the limit for the day. Nothing deeper or longer, in fact cut back a bit, and cut way back when cold or fatigue sets in.

The surface interval must fall within a range -- more than a minimum, or less than a maximum. Too short a surface interval is a recipe for a disaster. Too long a surface interval is also a recipe for disaster. If the surface interval taken falls OUTSIDE the accepted range, then the whole idea of gradual depth progression starts from zero again.

Further, here is a critical point of the system:
ANY MOVEMENT DURING THE SURFACE INTERVAL (SUCH AS SWIMMING, OR FIGHTING A CURRENT, OR LABORIOUS GEAR ADJUSTMENTS), INSTANTLY INVALIDATES THE SEQUENCE AND THE DIVER MUST START FROM ZERO AGAIN

Here is a quick example of a typical dive session:
Dive #1 10m 0'45" --> zero hypoxia during recovery breathing
Surface interval 3'00"
Dive #2 14m 1'01" --> zero hypoxia during recovery breathing
Surface interval 3'00"
Dive #3 19m 1'10" --> faint traces of some hypoxia during recovery breathing
Diver hopes to get a good 20m+ dive on the next dive, but during the surface interval something goes wrong: he swims, or fights a current, or wastes energy adjusting gear, or takes too long or too short an interval
Dive #4 BACK TO SQUARE-1: 10m 0'45" --> judge your air
Surface 3'00"
Diver gets cold, and therefore must stay very shallow & short
Diver eventually gets out, feeling frustrated that he never got a good 20m+ dive in. But, it wasn't safe to do so because he screwed up his surface interval. That's life. Maybe next time.



This is just the summary of the method. Anyway, the core of the method is that hypoxia cannot be reliably felt while underwater. However, during the recovery breathing after the dive, hypoxia is easily detected if you have practice understanding the symptoms.

The system has major drawbacks. Using this system it is totally impossible to start the day with a deep long dive. The only way to get deep & long is to work towards that by gradually increasing each dive. This usually results in getting cold before the depth/time potential is reached (at least I get cold here in Vancouver).

So, on an average solo session, I usually get JUST ONE deep & long dive, because I need to do many progressive dives leading up to it. Then, after the deep/long dive, I am usually cold.

Realize that a gradual progression towards the deepest/longest dive of the day is NOT the best method to reach the greatest possible dive. Read any of the threads on the 'no-warm up' system and you'll realize that the 1st or 2nd dive has the potential to be the greatest/longest, but it is RUSSIAN ROULETTE to try a deep/long dive on your 1st or 2nd dive of the day if you have no one watching you.

Further, keeping the surface interval identical is absolutely key. The diver must be totally motionless during each surface interval. The only time that any type of activity is allowed is immediately after the recovery breathing. So, if the diver surfaces & recovers in 20 seconds, then he has at best 40 seconds to swim to the next spot he wants to dive -- and swim gently without much energy. Then, within 1 minute of surfacing, he begins the motionless phase. If the diver is still swimming & trying to locate a new spot after several minutes on the surface, the sequence must be restarted. The only way the system works is if each surface interval is identical to the previous one (both in duration, and in activity level, and in breathing pattern).

Another danger is acid build up. If the diver experiences burning legs or arms from acid build up during the dive, then the sequence must be restarted from zero. If the diver surfaces with extreme hypoxia, the sequence must be restarted from zero. Extreme hypoxia and/or acid build up take forever to recover from, and it is not possible anymore to have an identical surface interval, because of the complications that the hypoxic waste products introduce.
 
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Great info, as always, Eric.

Reading through it brought up a point another diver and I talked about some time ago- should we back off on hypercapnia training for solo diving? Does being to comfortable with high C02 loads put you at greater risk than if you worked on hypoxic training alone- for solo diving specifically.

One other point. The reason for too short a surface interval is obvious, but the part about too long a surface interval must relate, somehow, to the lessening of the dive reflex when too much time is spent on the surface???


Thanks,

Jon
 
I think the problem with too long of a surface interval is the high chance for overbreathing, even when trying not to.

I think the other thing is that relaxing is a safer way to train that training itself.

What do you mean by hypoxic training Jon as it applies to solo diving?
 
I'd add some more advices for solo diving:
  1. Get used to release your weight belt buckle and keep the end in the hand when starting to surface (or even before, in some cases). Try doing it always, not only when you feel in danger - it is very simple, and possible even with hands full. If it becomes an automatic reflex, it won't annoy you in any way.
    .
    It is not very sure it can save your life in case of a SWB (your face will likely stay in water anyway), but at least it will help to recover your body, which is not always an easy task at lost divers. Not only it is traumatic for the family when the body is lost, but it brings a lot of practical troubles with. In most countries there is a long waiting period before you can be proclaimed dead, and before your family can touch any indemnities and start arranging various bureaucratic affairs. Additionally, a long corpse search action can be pretty expensive for them if you are not properly insured.
    .
  2. Always tell someone where exactly you are going to dive and for how long. Mostly for the same reasons as above, but it can also happen that you are alive, though not able to come back because of streams / tide / weather / injury. And do not rely on being safe when you dive close to the shore - it can happen easily even in such case. Timely rescue action can indeed save your life.
    .
  3. Use a float - it has a lot of advantages: you are well visible, so theoretically boats should avoid passing close to you. We know the reality is different, but if you always surface directly at the float (climbing the float line), I believe your chances to avoid being crashed are pretty good.
    .
    And of course, the float will also help eventual rescuers to spot you (or find your body).
    .
    Another advantage of the float is that you can hold on it when your are exhausted or injured. You can also have food, drink, a cell phone, flares, GPS, compass or other devices or things that can help you to survive in case of inability to come back alone.
    .
    The float can also help you to come back quicker to the surface by climbing the float line. It is especially welcome in case you break or lose a fin, get injured, or have cramps, but is helpfull even normally. In the last time, I got used to climb the line in Free Immersion style - it is more relaxing and may save some oxygen too. It somehow brigs a feeling of security and suppresses the panicking feeling a freediver sometimes has when surfacing. This panicking sometimes leads to accelerating and may be a cause of SWB. I find the FIM style surfacing much more peaceful.
    .
    In case of ear barotrauma you may lose orientation - many divers start to swim in a wrong direction. Having a float will help you to find your way back to the surface safer.
    .
  4. Have always a knife or scissors with you. Dying tangled into a fishing line or net is a stupid death. Having it with you is not enough though - when you are in a panic, you may forget about it, or not being able to pull it out. Be sure pulling it out often underwater - just to have the move automated. Play with it often, but do so carefully - not to injure you. Diving scissors may be a safer tool for this purpose.
 
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hypercapnic training not hypoxic training
 
Quote from CDavis
"Eric and Laminar have raised the 64 million dollar question. I wish I had an answer. It is like sex, people are going to dive alone (me included)"

This is a late reply, but I couldn't resist...

I think that CDavis has hit the nail on the head. When I can't find anyone else to do it with, I will have sex by myself. And the same goes for diving.
 
I don't want to ruin a good threat with too much tongue-in-cheek, but I'd say for both "can't find anyone else to do it with" is just not a very good excuse. There are 6 billion of us.

Either your standards are too high, or you're just not trying hard enough.

Sadly, getting someone drunk to go diving with you doesn't make it much safer...

Of course, uh, "some", actually prefer solo...

Ok, enough nervous humor...Great stuff from Laminar/wes. I think for most divers, the problem is not that they cannot identify stupid from random, but the fact that they choose to ignore the stupid anyway...Many of us become masterful at ignoring the "spidey sense" (called common sense I guess) that will keep you alive and out of trouble in a lot of situations...But having them listed and thrown at you, one could at least theoretically be more likely to think "oh wait...Didn't I read about this somewhere" when about to do something stupid while diving...
 
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In my mind, "ignoring the stupid" comes from a mentality of needing to measure up to some external yardstick of diving ability or having another goal in mind (a fish, a photo, or a mermaid :inlove ).

To my mind, if freediving and safety was taught from the start in a way that makes clear that until you get to know your spidey sense very well in the first 10m, there's no point in going deeper. Or to put it another way, knowing when you need to start your internal diagnostic routine all over again, as Eric proposed.

In a way, I feel like I've come full circle. Yes, I do very much going deep, and probably dive deeper on average than most other recreational divers, but I've also realized how much there is to enjoy and explore in the shallows. In the competitive freediver's mind, those first 20m are the boring part that you want to get through as fast as possible so that you can reach the "glory" zone in the abyss.

Depth is a strange goal. Why does it seem to validate so many people's existence. It is exhilirating, for sure, to go deep and set a new pb, but if we didn't have depth computers, we wouldn't be able to dinstinguish from a 64m dive and a 65m dive, or even 32m vs. 33m. I think Fondueset is on to something very important. Diving in one's comfort zone, without looking at the computer until after the dive is over, can enlighten us on the comfort zone that we should be diving in.

Okay, I'm rambling on and I can't focus my eyes on the screen. :duh
 
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Hi trux,

I agree that have a float or supplies nearby is a good idea, especially if you are far from shore.

Do you usually dive recreationally WITH a descent line? You mention using one to pull up FIM style.

This would not suit my recreational diving style very much at all, since I dive on steep walls and usually cover quite a bit of horizontal distance.

But I suppose at certain sites, or when all you want to do is generally go up and down, it would be helpful.

Not really my cup of tea, though.

How do you use the line?
 
Full circle here too :) Strange how you have to go deep to learn to appreciate the shallow...Damn the human psyche can be weak sometimes.

Sure the idea of diving deep still appeals to me, but diving shallow and looking at things is just so much more FUN. Maybe next season will be another, slighly bigger, circle...We'll see...

I believe trux is referring to a similar setup that spearfishers use. Ie. a floatline, but no weights on it, just sort of following you around?
 
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I have been freediving mostly alone for the last 6 years. But i started out in my first year or two of freediving, training and diving with buddies, which allowed me to understand the risks and how i reacted whilst freediving in safer conditions.

I would agree that a surface float / marker bouy is essential when diving solo, and if you arent currently diving with one you should get one, they do not impede your enjoyment of the dive and have a huge safety value.

As has been said so far, also relaxing and not having to prove anything to anyone is also essential IMHO...and listen,listen listen to your body. As the saying goes ' if there is any doubt, there is no doubt!'

There are risks as we all agree, but there are with everything we do. You manage the 'knowns' and try to avoid areas where you may be more at risk of encountering the 'unknowns', but dont ever be fooled into thinking you are totally safe. Life changes in the blink of an eye (regardless of whether you are on land or in the sea ).
 
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Interesting thread and i just got into it. Watches are essential i reckon but what has only been breifly touched on here i think are the variables and the dangers of knowing your limits. If i am good for a 10m dive today for 1 min am i just as good tomorrow despite being unknowingly less hydrated or coming down with the beginings of an infection. Point being listening to the body rather than the equipment and the danger of knowing that I can go to 20m so 10m should pose no problem even though I may have an unknown complication as mentioned above.
 
So back to my point of how to train.

Hypercapnia, high C02, training seems like a great way to train for underwater hockey, where you have two teams of people to help you out if you get in trouble, but not so good for solo diving- since your "training" yourself to ignore your breathing stimulus.

For those that solo dive would it be safer to work only on hypoxic training, like 02 tables, and leave the C02 stuff alone for safety's sake?

Jon
 
The problem is that you can't train to feel when you is on your limit.
You only feel the CO2 increasing, not the O2 decrease.
Just like "fcallagy" said, if you can do 100 m dynamic today it's not sure you can do it tomorrow.
I have seen people who can swim 100m in dynamic blacking out around 50 m!!!

In depth it is even more dangerous to train alone...
 
First - I've only really been back at this for about two years now - so I consider myself a novice. When I dove as a kid I never really went for depth - just wherever the bottom was - and my approach was not as focused - I managed to figure out a few cool things pretty early on - like frenzel, isolating my eustachian tubes etc. and discovered a very basic and natural sense of ease being under water. I think it is this last that kept me from getting obsessive about going deeper or longer.

The trick for me is to approach each dive with openness and ease. And with a willingness to let it go when the time comes. It's an interesting balance, in an activity where there is such a predilection to emphasize will, to have a relaxed sense of overall context and openness throughout each dive. All things being equal, strong will is a useful ingrediant - but it should not be substituted for increasing awareness and skill.

Overcoming things is not the same as sensing the flow and being moved by it. Relying too much on direct gross control is unskillful. Sometimes I like to notch back my dive criteria to comfort - If I stay past my comfort zone - and I mean the zone where you can just kick back and enjoy - then I've blown it. I like the paradox of extending my dive times without compromising comfort.
It's like in Taiji - you cultivate softness - but really it is space you are cultivating - space inside your body as a result of which tremendous power is generated with almost no perceptible movement. And a kind of sensory blurring of the ostensibly discreet boundaries of the body - which allows the senses to equalize.

Recently I was watching Salmon swim in a really strong current. They can hold position with very little movement - sort of slip 'between' the water. Developing that sense in the water leads to really efficient movement - wherein the body works as a single unit. It's interesting to experiment with moving underwater - and it can conserve huge amounts of energy. All kinds of unneeded tension is part of nearly every movement we make.
 
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