How to improve maximal equalization depth using frenzel?

[MarcinB]

Hi!

I started to dive deeper than 15m last summer (I dive in cold and dark lakes). My maximal depth of equalization (using Frenzel technique with T-lock), no packing) was between 20 and 25m depending on a particular day. In the following months I did some exercises shown in the Federico Mana's book to improve chest and diaphragm flexibility. It improved my vital capacity from 6.3 to 7.7 liters. However, my maximal equalization depth did not improve much, it's currently around 30m. I did some FRC dives (passive exhale in vertical position, submerged to the neck) and I was able to equalize to the depth of only 8m.

I think 30m on full lungs and 8m on FRC is way to shallow considering my lung volume. Most freedivers with similar experience I know don't stretch at all and they can equalize down to 40m using plain Frenzel, however, they do some packing. Is possible that insufficient relaxation during diving is my only limiting factor (i don't have many occasions to dive deeper than 20m)?

I recently started to do uddiyana bandha after reverse packing as well as short dry static on empty lungs plus reverse packing (while trying to relax my chest as much as possible). I hope it helps.

I don't want to play with mouth fill yet because I think there are other things I have to work on first. Any suggestions how to improve my limits are highly welcome.

 

[charlie.]

im pretty new to freediving and cant dive that deep so cant offer much help but this guy goes into alot of detail on the middle ear and equalization so it might have a few answers
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXx3S74XPhY]The Divers Ear - under pressure - YouTube[/ame]

 

[MarcinB]

Thanks for the link to the video. It's very interesting. I think my equalization technique is correct (confirmed by an experienced freediving instructor). The problem is the lack of air for equalization.

 

[Eurico]

Hi!

Do you do the groper call? From what I can understand it’s what is missing you. With the groper call you can get air from your longs into the mouth without the use of your chest.

Look forward to hear from more experience divers.

 

[Simos]

Hi!

Do you do the groper call? From what I can understand it’s what is missing you. With the groper call you can get air from your longs into the mouth without the use of your chest.

Look forward to hear from more experience divers.

Gropers can be a pain in the butt so be careful :t

 

[Eurico]

LOL!!!

:martial -> :blackeye

 

[MarcinB]

What is groper call? Never heard of it.

 

[Eurico]

I hope that this can help you!

The Perfect Grouper Call » Freedive Blog

 

[MarcinB]

Thanks for the link. I call it reverse packing. I don't want to use it yet. The reason is that in my opinion I should be able to dive at least few meters deeper without any tricks like this. I'm afraid that using reverse packing or mouth fill at my current level would put me at risk of lung squeeze. I want to be sure that everything is OK with my chest flexibility, relaxation etc. before I use these techniques.

How deep can you equalize using plain frenzel?

 

[Eurico]

Hi

I don´t dive much! Like you I’m at the 30m barrier, waiting to resolve some issues before go deeper.
That’s why I was:

Look forward to hear from more experience divers.

I use the grouper call. I didn´t try diving without doing it, so I can´t tell you how much I can make without it. Around 25m (I don’t like to pack) I found my residual volume deep. So for comfort and a good equalization I do it whenever I feel the need.

Regarding to your lung squeeze issue, like I said before I’M WAITING that someone with more experience come to help us!
What you are doing I think is the correct thing to do. Explore the maximum of one technique before passing to the next one, and also with a great concern with your safety.
But I´m guessing that you achieved the maximum deep that the volume of air that you have “up throat” allows you to. By reaching the residual volume deep (around 25m) your lungs work with negative pressure, so you can´t count on them. What you can count on is with the air in your mouth… and that is a physiologic capacity.

 

[MarcinB]

It is possible that that I have already reached my limits. However, these limits are pretty low compared to other freedivers I've met. Most of them can equalize without any tricks to at least 35m.

 

[mattbigblue]

I think for someone who is a beginner and is not packing, 30m is pretty ok to hit RV (not being able to equalize without mouthfill and reverse packing).

 

[cdavis]

Marcin,

Dry stretching can have a very substantial effect on ability to equalize at depth. It takes a while and you have to be careful of u bandha with reverse packing. Go slow, you can squeeze yourself pretty good if not. PM me for detail if your interested.

I dive frc, about 1/2 lung. Picking up a daily stretching routine that includes u bandha and intercostal stretches took my max depth from about 75 ft to about 95 in a few months. This after losing over 30 ft of depth in a year due to lack of depth diving and loss of a 4 meter pool to practice in.

 

[MarcinB]

Thanks cdavis! I did not stretch intercostal muscles until a week ago. Maybe this is what I'm lacking.

 

[growingupninja]

Not sure if you are using a mask, but mask volume can also have a significant impact on your ability to dive deep. If you are putting air into your mask to EQ, that's air that could otherwise be used to EQ your ears. I usually have really easy hands free EQ, but at about the time I start running out of air to EQ my mask, I also start having to work much harder to EQ the ears. With my Cressi Super Ochio, this happens at about 115' (wearing a loose 1.5mm). With an Omer Zero 3, it's more like 135' (wearing 5mm open cell). Of course with packing max depth goes way up.

I made some pipe goggles a while back but never did much with them. I will probably give them a try next time I'm line diving to see where they put me. I think without packing I can do 180' wearing pipe goggles.

 

[MarcinB]

I dive in Omer Zero 3 too. I equalize the mask every time I equalize ears (I can't do it separately). I guess I'm one of these to whom depth does not come easily. I'll continue with my new stretching routine over the winter. Hope it helps.

 

[growingupninja]

I dive in Omer Zero 3 too. I equalize the mask every time I equalize ears (I can't do it separately). I guess I'm one of these to whom depth does not come easily. I'll continue with my new stretching routine over the winter. Hope it helps.

Well, keep stretching and working at it. People who have it easy tend to be lazy. I am living proof.

One thing you can do to practice EQ is forced exhale/neg pack work in a deep pool, if you can't get into real deep water to dive. I do a fair bit of exhale/neg pack work in a 20' pool to develop and maintain flexibility. It is an advanced technique and can lead to very serious injury. Go very slowly and don't ever push it--samba or BO in that state would be like a deep water blackout and mean water in the lungs (drowning or at least trip to hospital), even if your training partner brought you immediately to the surface.

That is very cool that you were able to raise your vital capacity that much, by the way.

 

[cdavis]

Ditto.

forced exhale/neg pac in the deep end works well, especially if you do it regularly over a long period of time. I've found that the stretching I'm doing works as well for me, although both got to be good.

Ditto twice on the safety aspects. Its VERY easy to screw up and squeeze yourself.

 

[MarcinB]

Time for some update. During the last six months I did uddiyana bandha, intercostal muscle streching and reverse packing exercises 4-5 times a week as well as some 30s empty lung static at 3.8m in the pool once a week. Diaphragm flexibility improved considerably. Now I can suck my belly in like a pro
I did few training sessions in the lake this spring and, unfortunately, I did not see much improvement in my equalizing ability So the problem must be somewhere else.

 

[wtu2000]

Hi guys, I did my 2&3 stars at the beginning of the year.

during the training, I was able to EQ unto 24~27M, then somehow it just won't go through. but as soon as I pull the rope and turn myself head up, I could EQ again.

My PB was 30M, but the last few meters I had to turn and EQ then let myself sink to the plate. I believe I could go much deeper than that, just haven't had a chance to try... (that means lung capacity is not an issue here?)

I, too, would like to receive some advice from all the pro divers here!!

Thanks in advance.