Hi all. I saw this group thru Sebastien Murat. Anyone here use wet sinus free diving, and if so, do you sneeze when reimmersing if the sun is bright and what color are your eyes and do you have creases in your earlobes? No joke, I'm doing research on photic (sun) sneezing and I believe that there is a connection, at the trigeminal nerve, which ties it together. I'd appreciate any feedback. DD :waterwork
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Photic Sneeze, Wet Sinus, Free Diving
- Thread starterwet
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Thread Status: Hello
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Hey there DD, very interesting questions! My husband is a photic sneezer and will actually look towards the sun to force the sneeze to come on faster. His eyes are a *very* light blue and he has fair skin (which burns easily) and he has creases in his ears lol! Now, I don't know if immersing your sinuses, surfacing and sneezing is a result of being a photic sneezer, but there is obviously a light adjustment and I'm sure a reflex that wants to trigger the sinus to clear itself of water. It's true what you say about a connection at the trigeminal nerve. If you want to talk more to my husband, PM me. http://loin.free.fr/john/photic_sneezing.html i've personally never tried deep wet equalization, but when i fill my sinus cavities with water, even just in the tub, the first few times are irritating to the mucosa and i sneeze it out.
Hi all. Thanks Iceselkie for your response, sorry for the delay!
I've been doing research on physiology of marine mammal diving and anthropology of ancient coastal humans, including Homo erectus etc.
I've found that a major element in diving animals is the cyclical breathing patterns, and how they relate to food gathering and temperature/pressure/light differentials. Modern humans have certain vestigial remnants (both physical and behavioral) which may be interpreted as having signified a more aquatic habitude in our ancestors, perhaps a million years ago (?). This is very complex, with many questions still unanswered.
My focus has been on the possibility that the photic sneeze is a remnant of a past deep-diving/breathing cycle. I refer to this deep diving cycle as the Aqua-photic Respiratory Cycle (ARC). I have written a brief note in microsoft word 97 with 2 rough sketches, that I've put at my website at:
http://the-arc.wikispaces.com/Aqua-photic
Deep Diving Ancient Homo: Aqua-photic Respiratory Cycle
I need to clearly state here that it is very speculative, a hypothesis based on various features of modern people not found in our closest genetic relatives, and therefore ought not be considered factual or complete, as it is in the process of being changed due to new findings. The hypothesised description of Homo erectus diving cycle should not be inferred as a method for modern human diving. It is NOT diving instructions for modern divers, and should not be construed as such. http://forums.deeperblue.net/images/smilies/adminfinger.gif
:naughty
I'm inviting you to take a look-see, if interested. I appreciate any responses, especially from free-divers with marine equatropical experience. Deep thanks. DDeden
I've been doing research on physiology of marine mammal diving and anthropology of ancient coastal humans, including Homo erectus etc.
I've found that a major element in diving animals is the cyclical breathing patterns, and how they relate to food gathering and temperature/pressure/light differentials. Modern humans have certain vestigial remnants (both physical and behavioral) which may be interpreted as having signified a more aquatic habitude in our ancestors, perhaps a million years ago (?). This is very complex, with many questions still unanswered.
My focus has been on the possibility that the photic sneeze is a remnant of a past deep-diving/breathing cycle. I refer to this deep diving cycle as the Aqua-photic Respiratory Cycle (ARC). I have written a brief note in microsoft word 97 with 2 rough sketches, that I've put at my website at:
http://the-arc.wikispaces.com/Aqua-photic
Deep Diving Ancient Homo: Aqua-photic Respiratory Cycle
I need to clearly state here that it is very speculative, a hypothesis based on various features of modern people not found in our closest genetic relatives, and therefore ought not be considered factual or complete, as it is in the process of being changed due to new findings. The hypothesised description of Homo erectus diving cycle should not be inferred as a method for modern human diving. It is NOT diving instructions for modern divers, and should not be construed as such. http://forums.deeperblue.net/images/smilies/adminfinger.gif
:naughty
I'm inviting you to take a look-see, if interested. I appreciate any responses, especially from free-divers with marine equatropical experience. Deep thanks. DDeden
Yes, Trux, lots of bits and pieces of circumstantial evidence, however it depends on interpretation, and requires more data that AFAICS is simply nonexistent because no one ever expected to find any link between sneezing and cyclical diving, although whales and walruses do similar exhalations and have regular forage-breath-dive cycle behaviors. Dolphins exhale and inhale at about the same speed as humans sneeze, sea otters dive for a shellfish and a pebble tool then surface to lie on their back to rest and have a bite.
Perhaps I'll get some sponsors to finance a trip to the equator to do some hypothesis testing. I'm not too good at fundraising though, and the water here in Nor Cal. is way too cold for wet sinus ARC diving, so it's on the shelf for now, like a aging bottle of wine. :friday
DDeden
Fascinating! I've been a believer in the aquatic evolution of humans for ages and am delighted to see that it is finally getting some academic respect. Oddly enough, I, too, have blue eyes and creased earlobes but I have a terrible time diving because my prefrontal sinuses give me Hell everytime I try to submerge. I'm working my way through assorted meds and treatments to see if I can overcome this but I've never heard of 'wet sinus' diving before. If someone (you or Brianna?) could PM me with further info, I'd really appreciate it.
Yes, I agree it is a very interesting theory - I'd tell besides the well established and studied diving reflex, it is the most interesting one.
The problem with the data collection today is that most people use masks or nose clips, so there are only few ones who dive with wet sinus. David, didn't you try looking through old documents about pearl and sponge divers, and about other native divers? There might be some info too. Or is photic sneezing much less common in those concerned ethnics?
EDIT: it might be also interesting to contact and consult clinics and associations practicing toddler diving - the reflex, if it exists, could be more pronounced at babies
The problem with the data collection today is that most people use masks or nose clips, so there are only few ones who dive with wet sinus. David, didn't you try looking through old documents about pearl and sponge divers, and about other native divers? There might be some info too. Or is photic sneezing much less common in those concerned ethnics?
EDIT: it might be also interesting to contact and consult clinics and associations practicing toddler diving - the reflex, if it exists, could be more pronounced at babies
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I have blue eyes (and blond hair), my earlobes are attached and I don't think they are considered creased. The sun is bright where I live. Before I started freediving I used to dive with no mask and get some water up my sinuses as a result. I didn't like the feeling but it was tolerable and I noticed the more I dive the less I mind it. Almost after everydive I blew my nose to get rid of water and mucus but I don't recall ever sneezing.
What do you think is the genetic relation of creased earlobes and photic sneezing?
What do you think is the genetic relation of creased earlobes and photic sneezing?
Thanks for the suggestions, questions. I must alter my statement above:
Out of concern for possible risks of people, and a preference to not answer questions with questionable answers, I have to refrain from giving more detailed information, at least until I have proven effectively to myself whether or not the ARC holds water.
To not test it, is failure; to cheat, is also failure; whereas to test it and find it doesn't work at all is success (though inconclusive); and of course, to test it and find it works is success and partial confirmation of the paradigm that a semi-aquatic diving-foraging lifestyle of our long ago ancestors is indeed very strongly indicated, though not necessarily at a specific time period.
Since physiologically, modern Homo sapiens (humans) differ in many small ways from our long ago ancestors, I don't expect to perfectly replicate the ARC as it was theoretically used, however results in close approximation of its estimated effectiveness and efficiency, as part of a sustainable method of aquatic food harvesting would validate further study and significance.
The who, is me, the discoverer/hypothesizer of the ARC;
the why, is because the discoverer determines the validity, while others may then test both the test replication and results replication.
So, now I wonder how, when and where I'll test it.
Obviously, Safety First. Not so obvious; how does one train for sneezing? Sneeze Tables?
DDeden
Out of concern for possible risks of people, and a preference to not answer questions with questionable answers, I have to refrain from giving more detailed information, at least until I have proven effectively to myself whether or not the ARC holds water.
To not test it, is failure; to cheat, is also failure; whereas to test it and find it doesn't work at all is success (though inconclusive); and of course, to test it and find it works is success and partial confirmation of the paradigm that a semi-aquatic diving-foraging lifestyle of our long ago ancestors is indeed very strongly indicated, though not necessarily at a specific time period.
Since physiologically, modern Homo sapiens (humans) differ in many small ways from our long ago ancestors, I don't expect to perfectly replicate the ARC as it was theoretically used, however results in close approximation of its estimated effectiveness and efficiency, as part of a sustainable method of aquatic food harvesting would validate further study and significance.
The who, is me, the discoverer/hypothesizer of the ARC;
the why, is because the discoverer determines the validity, while others may then test both the test replication and results replication.
So, now I wonder how, when and where I'll test it.
Obviously, Safety First. Not so obvious; how does one train for sneezing? Sneeze Tables?
DDeden
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(from AAT yahoo group, re. "emotional tears" (different from irritation tears eg. onions) providing O2 to hypoxic cornea while underwater, Diving response/reflex stimulating "emotional tears" in humans (and elephants?), Trigeminal nerve activated during Photic Sneeze and Diving response) https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AAT/conversations/messages/62061
"There was a lot of discussion at the London Conference about the Diving Response being triggered by application of water, especially cold water, to the mid-face.
Dr W Michael Panneton (who has collaborated with me in my tears research and is a colleague of Andreas Fahlman, who I believe is in this group) has shown that The Diving Response is triggered specifically by receptors of the Anterior Ethmoidal Nerve, a branch of the middle branch of the Trigeminal Nerve.
Panneton, W M, Qi, G, Le, J, Livergood, R, Juric, R, Activation of brainstem projections from recipient zones of the anterior ethmoidal nerve in the medullary dorsal horn. Neuroscience 141, 889 - 906, (2006) "
Greg
"There was a lot of discussion at the London Conference about the Diving Response being triggered by application of water, especially cold water, to the mid-face.
Dr W Michael Panneton (who has collaborated with me in my tears research and is a colleague of Andreas Fahlman, who I believe is in this group) has shown that The Diving Response is triggered specifically by receptors of the Anterior Ethmoidal Nerve, a branch of the middle branch of the Trigeminal Nerve.
Panneton, W M, Qi, G, Le, J, Livergood, R, Juric, R, Activation of brainstem projections from recipient zones of the anterior ethmoidal nerve in the medullary dorsal horn. Neuroscience 141, 889 - 906, (2006) "
Greg