• Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:

    • Join over 44,280+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
    • Participate in and browse from over 516,210+ posts.
    • Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
    • Post your own photos or view from 7,441+ user submitted images.
    • All this and much more...

    You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

Static Apnea Above Water Blackouts

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

Breathtaking

Member
Nov 15, 2013
6
0
11
25
Hi guys, I am a young, stupid rookie freediver. I have been practicing holding my breath (above water) and seeing long I can go. I have been hyperventilating then packing, but if I don't concentrate very hard I tend to black out with embarassing consequences. This also happens without hyperventilating, but much less so and I can always stop myself from blacking out. I never dive after hyperventilating, but I want to know what is making me black out and how dangerous this is.

P.S. not going to push myself this much anymore, atleast for a while...
 
You need to provide more information. How exactly do you do static? What body position, warm up, breath up? What is the time at which you black out? When do contractions start?
 
When I black out I am in a sitting position; on a chair or sitting down. I don't have a warm up, I only hyperventilate for about 1 minute, then I pack (Should I pack until the centre of my chest hurts a little?). I usually black out in about 15 seconds, far before any contractions start. I recently read a news article mention nitrogen narcosis, is this what I am experiencing?
Thanks.
 
Hyperventilation+packing+sitting position usually causes blackout in less than 30s. You are actually doing everything you can to induce loss of consciousness. Combination of these factors greatly reduces blood flow to the brain. So even though your blood is fully saturated with oxygen your brain does not get enough O2. Don't hold your breath while sitting, there is no point doing it in this position, lay down. Read this thread for more information: http://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/dry-blackout-why.98767/#post-918586
 
  • Like
Reactions: Breathtaking
You 'pack' before a breathold? (wet or dry doesn't matter)
Why do you 'pack' before a breathold?
Why should you 'pack' before a breathold?
Does it hurt?

Hurt means the body saying: 'You've gone to far already!'
It needs to be prepared for this.

Stop packing.
Stop hyperventilating.

Read a book on breathing, when sitting upright.
Afterterwards go lie down and practise what you've just read.
Dive.

Be safe, respect your vessel.
 
Welcome. When you say "young" are you an adult? Either way you should be careful - training yourself to overcome your body's natural defenses is not without risk.
... I recently read a news article mention nitrogen narcosis, is this what I am experiencing?
Thanks.
No, it sounds more like a dry version of Shallow Water Blackout (SWB). The freedivers/apnea-ists will likely have bags of information on that for you ;)
 
On incidents regarding lungpacking

Lungpacking, also known as carpa or buccal pumping, is a technique employed by freedivers to increase the pressure in their lungs above normal. This technique is believed to assist in achieving greater depths, distances and time. Recent events over the several last years have however indicated that this technique is not without risk.

Lungpacking is known to have caused various ailments, including, but not limited to, air in the arteries (air embolism), air between the lungs (pneumomediastinum), pneumothorax, and lungbleeding. All of these ailments can be potentially fatal when insufficiently recognized and treated. Factors influencing the risk of an incident have been known to be pressure increasing poses (stretching, yoga during lungpacking) and the combination of extreme lungpacking and certain disciplines (constant weight without fins, dynamic without fins). Bloodshift and / or a lungsqueeze might also affect the lung pressure after a deep dive when aided with lungpacking by further reducing the physical volume of the lungs.

To protect yourself from these incidents, it is therefore advised to:
a. Avoid dry lungpacking
b. Never increase lungpacking volumes significantly compared with previous volumes
c. Never combine lungpacking and pressure increasing postures (yoga or otherwise)
d. Be careful when considering lungpacking and diving (pool / depth) without fins.
e. Instructors, trainers and experienced freedivers should warn freedivers when they see potentially dangerous lungpacking behavior.
f. It is strongly recommended to report any negative experience with lungpacking, both in the past as in the present to the AIDA MSC to further improve safety and knowledge about this particular topic.

Best Regards,

Rik Rösken
Medical & Science Officer

Now here are the comments we would like to add :

  • We remind it is completely useless to pack for dives shallower than 60 or 70 meters. Before using this double-edged technique, prefer improving technique, relaxation, achieve sharp equalization technique. These will take you deeper or further way faster and safer.
  • Unlike statement A, we think it is being on the safe side to regularly practice dry packing to train body and technique if you know how to do it correctly, rather than just packing when needed once in a while. We recommend to do this 3 times a week when training regularly or competing, to increase the number of packs really gradually – 1 to 2 each two weeks, and to never pack beyond 60-70% of your maximum. All this is part of the AIDA 4* course.
  • Alveoli over stretched lose their elasticity and become porous, increasing risk or lung squeeze and air embolism.
  • Concerning c. in my opinion there is an easy way to significantly reduce the risk: rather than stretching once packed and thus suffer the risk to injure yourself with a bad movement or too much packing, inhale, take the posture, THEN only pack, increasing volumes gradually over sessions (if you’re not familiar with these stretching techniques, even stretch with just a simple 80-90% inhale and no packing at first). This way, it is easy to stop and immediately release pressure if any discomfort is felt, before any pain. Remember that unlike your muscles which feel pain and warn you when to stop, lungs have really few pain receptors.
  • Always exhale on the last part of your dive in depth freediving : a bit from 20m (Remember to warn your safety freediver, this can be confused with BO symptom), but specially on the last 10 meters. On the way up, air expands in your lungs faster than bloodshift reverses, so in a reduced available space, creating a dangerous high pressure.
And if you are still curious about packing, you can follow the interesting discussion on Facebook which followed Rik Rösken’s note.
 
DeeperBlue.com - The Worlds Largest Community Dedicated To Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing

ABOUT US

ISSN 1469-865X | Copyright © 1996 - 2024 deeperblue.net limited.

DeeperBlue.com is the World's Largest Community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving, Ocean Advocacy and Diving Travel.

We've been dedicated to bringing you the freshest news, features and discussions from around the underwater world since 1996.

ADVERT