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URGENT breath hold TV world record

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Haydn

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2004
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Many in the UK will have heard of Merlin (Britains got Talent). He is doing a world record attempt tomorrow, to regain his underwater juggling record. He has to juggle three balls whilst breath hold. The producers have just advised him that the attempt has to be on a platform at 20 feet depth, rather than as was expected at 6 feet. During the few minutes (how many, I dont know, maybe ten) getting ready or waiting for others to get ready, he will have to breath compressed air from a scuba set.

He expects to break the record which is currentl 90 seconds juggling 3 metal balls.

The situation with the depth and compressed air seems really dangerous, as after the attempt, he will need to bolt for the surface, or recommence breathing from the tank. The potential for swb is obvious and maybe a bend?

Any advice?
 
When breathing compressed air at 6m, he will start with 60% more PaO2 (and also proportionally higher volume of O2 in lungs), hence the 90s should be rather easy despite the physical effort. The risk of SWB is not too serious at a breath-hold of this length, especially considering he starts with higher O2 - the hypoxia should not be any close to the limit if he avoids prolonged hyperventilation prior the attempt. With hyperventilation he can reduce the hypoxic threashold and could indeed black out prematurely.

The risk of DCS at ~10 min at 6m is not too big either, he just needs to ascend slowly and queitely. Preferable would be taking a few breaths from the tank again before ascending to clear out the CO2 first, but I do not think it is too important at this depth and bottom time. He must not forget to exhale all along his ascent! The risk of an ascent barotrauma is the biggest one.
 
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as Trux says, he is asking for Lung Trauma. If he is not scuba certified he should not be allowed to do this.
 
Yes, and in fact, the risk of barotrauma is much greater than at scuba for two reasons:

1) When on scuba it is natural to breathe all the time, and hence also during the exhale. In apnea it is necessary to hold your breath, hence it is not natural to start exhaling and exhaling during the entire ascent

2) After a longer breath-hold, you cannot rely on your judgment - under hypoxia it is impaired, so you cannot rely on the theoretical knowledge you learned. As long as the exhaling during ascent is not drilled and automated, it may easily happend that the diver with pressurized air in his lungs starts ascennding without exhaling, which might be fatal. Especially in case of a problem or a panic situation, the injury may happen very easily.

Anyway, the record seems to be pretty ridiculous. If it should be an apnea record, he should do it in apnea, and not after breathing pressurized air. When the previous record was done in 2m, to beat it he needs to do it in 2m again, otherwise he is diving with 40% more of oxygen. If they already decided to use pressurized air at 6m, why not jongling on pure oxygen or on enriched air even deeper? He could jongle ~20 minutes long. Or he can jongle right with a scuba gear - it will have about the same value as without it.
 
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Thanks Guys. Just as we thought. But we didnt see an apparent advantage in O2 at depth. Certainly not a level playing field and of course it is only proper that all the prep is in apnea and no breathing from a cylinder.

Trux, the problem is that after doing a breathold nearly to max, the reflex is to maintain the breathold until you reach the surface. It would take quite a lot of mental control to breath out on the way up when all the usual training has been to maintain the hold. And breathing out would remove the last few dregs of O2 if the hold is pushed too far just to get the record.

TV work always seems to be more dangerous due to the demands the producers expect of you. Especially when you factor in that the person involved is an entertainer, escapologist, magician and not a trained apneaist.

So if anybody fancies a go at a new apnea world record, its 90 seconds juggling three metal balls, under water. Sounds easy......????? Anyone........????

I will let you know how Merlin gets on tomorrow.

Oh, I believe its being covered live, on British Forces Radio at around 17.00. Should be available to listen to on the internet.
 
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Trux, the problem is that after doing a breathold nearly to max, the reflex is to maintain the breathold until you reach the surface. It would take quite a lot of mental control to breath out on the way up when all the usual training has been to maintain the hold.
Yes, that's exactly the reason why I wrote that it was dangerous to use the pressurized air for apnea.
And breathing out would remove the last few dregs of O2 if the hold is pushed too far just to get the record.
No, Haydn, it wouldn't. First of all even a complete beginner will be nowhere near any hypoxic limit after 90s of apnea started at 6m with pressurized air. But more importantly, the continuos exhaling on ascent will not lead to any loss of PaO2 (the ascent will, but it does it in any case anyway). The exhaling will only alow the excess air escaping from the lungs, but they still may be full when the diver surfaces, despite the continuous exhale.
 
Surely, given that this is a WR attempt and also being broadcast - there must be a health and safety expert overseeing this? Or is that your role Haydn?

This is a little like me attempting a skydiving WR attempt and asking the day before if anyone knows anything about skydiving or perhaps doing a little research on the web before hand..

My advice: have qualified, experienced experts overseeing this or cancel the attempt.

This reminds me - I haven't seen this years Darwin nominations. Anyone?
 
Surely, given that this is a WR attempt and also being broadcast - there must be a health and safety expert overseeing this? Or is that your role Haydn?

This is a little like me attempting a skydiving WR attempt and asking the day before if anyone knows anything about skydiving or perhaps doing a little research on the web before hand..

My advice: have qualified, experienced experts overseeing this or cancel the attempt.

This reminds me - I haven't seen this years Darwin nominations. Anyone?

Yes skydiving is safe enough for you personally just to give it a go Manalive!

If you need anyone to help you out of the plane i'm always there for you with a helping hand :)
 
Aside from all the other points made, regarding the 90 seconds, this is the current record. No-one knows if he will do 91 seconds or 240 seconds so hypoxia is still a valid issue.
 
Aside from all the other points made, regarding the 90 seconds, this is the current record. No-one knows if he will do 91 seconds or 240 seconds so hypoxia is still a valid issue.
From what understood, the guy has no freediving training, and will breathe pressurized air at 6m (60% more oxygen). So if he avoids hyperventilation as I advised previously, there is practically no chance the hypoxia will be limiting. It will be hypercapnia, and he will give up long time before being anywhere near hypoxic.

The important condition is avoiding hyperventilation, though. And the big question is whether the guy is coached properly, and whether he manages not to hyperventilate with the scuba regulator, waiting 10m at 6m. If he does hyperventilate, hypoxia will be indeed a problem too.
 
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Well, the organizers on site simply should have a medical professional, knowledgeable in diving medicine on site, perhaps in coordination with an (underwater) stunt coordinator. Further, they should have made an risk assessment before the attempt, and should act on the outcome of such an assessment. Deeperblue isn't an alternative to both.
 
I don't really understand why he can't just resume breathing from the tank after the breath hold and then ascend slow with the tank?

But then again there are a lot more things I don't understand about this utterly pointless record attempt. :)

Can I have a go too? Lol
 
Who cares, it's just a TV show. It should be over now anyway, shouldn't it? So how did it finish? Is there any new word record we need to be aware of, and that we could beat? Did he survive?
 
I did a google search earlier but didn't find any news. I would imagine it takes some time to be ratified as a guinness WR.

I did find the video of his previous record though (1:20), you can find it on YouTube if you want to waste 2 mins of your life :)

I'm off to find some juggling forums, it looked a bit more complicated than I thought so I might need some practice and advice (I can imagine a juggling-equivalent of Trux knowing everything about what happens to your body while juggling etc lol)
 
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Even if he died it would still count as a Guinness WR. Actually they have a special record category for that, longest underwater juggle with death occurring at the end...
 
Even if he died it would still count as a Guinness WR. Actually they have a special record category for that, longest underwater juggle with death occurring at the end...

Go on Simos, i'll sponsor you a tenner if you go for this one :)
 
To clarify somewhat. Lets make no mistake, Merlin is a professional escapologist with many years training and experience in his vocation. A lot of his performances involve Houdini type escapes with shackles and locks etc. Being suspended upside down under a burning rope whilst freeing himself from a shackled straightjacket. Ocasionally he does performance type publicity stunts like being shackled to a bench for three days below highwater and therefore being submerged as the tide covers him, dressed like King Canute. You can hire him to do stilt walking and a whole host of arts that his profession provides. He even wanted to water ski the English Channel.......on an ironing board. Remember Extreme Ironing? They wouldnt let him.

He is a previous Guiness world record holder for underwater juggling. Semi finalist in Britains got Talent. So this is his job, not a hobby.

The current situation relates to the demands of the organisers in not making available to him, the agreed 6 foot deep platform and the request to him to perform at 20 feet.

A phone call to me to enquire of any additional risks this might entail and to talk over the pros and cons of whether to go ahead. The decision not to attempt the record unless the platform was at 6 feet.

I am not sure whether the attempt was made.

Is this a silly record? Be assured, this is a far cry from sitting in a bath of baked beans for a week. The mental demands of juggling and not being able to drift your mind. A 90 second effort may seem short but how long can you do a dynamaic apnea for, 90 seconds seems about right to me. 90 seconds of juggling steel balls consumes a lot of O2.

The thing is, it is cheating to be a depth breathing from a tank. This point was missed entirely by the organisers and me. Thanks Trux for that advise. Commencing breathing from a regulator (without practice) after doing a max effort seems a risking protocol (unrehearsed) goodness , its tricky enough to flick an ok sign sometimes for trained apneaists. Merlin can only be thought of as a relative newcomer as far as breathold is concerned at 5 minutes, and he understands the principles about the same as any average freediver. He is not simply a Joe Public fancying a stunt.

The whole point relates to the inherrant additional stresses that organisers and especially the TV, brings to any event when they ask you to do something just a little different from the norm and you have little time to consider. Merlin had 24 hours to consider and seek some feedback from the experts on this forum. Sensible guy.

The skydiving thought is very interesting. I bet there are some people that read this that are also serious skydivers and with a good static. Whats the world record height for an apnea skydive? Imagine jumping from 30,000, 40,000, 60,000 feet on apnea and having to freefall until you are low enough to take a breath. Tell you what, that would really test your ability to turn off the adrenalin during a breath hold.

I still fancy the idea of No Limits Dynamic (being towed by speedboat). Is it possible to get one mile, or two. Think about it. The faster you go, say 30 knots and you only have to hold on for two minutes. Think of the drag at that speed. So 10 knots then and a 6 minute hold? How far can a No Limits Dynamic get you.

These are not utterly pointless record attempts but catch the imagination of a professional entertainer, its his job. Cant wait to see the result.
 
Even if he died it would still count as a Guinness WR. Actually they have a special record category for that, longest underwater juggle with death occurring at the end...

Maybe for now it will count, it won't be long before they start putting some rules in place for underwater juggling though and before you know it, they'll end up with a surface protocol (tap your head while you rub your belly and then switch) and some other stuff like APs, grab rules and so on
 
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