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Yoga, scientific research and stopping the heart

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Adrian

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I found an interesting web site reviewing lots of the scientific resrearch done on meditation, from the 50's up to now. I'm pasting an excerpt that's particularly interesting for freedivers.

Here's the link.

29. Satyanarayanamurthi and Shastry, 1958. Anand and Chhina, again, investigated three yogis who said they could stop their hearts. They found that to accomplish this, all three increased their intrathoracic pressure by forceful abdominal contractions with closed glottis after inspiration or expiration. Like Bagchi and Wenger, they discovered that their subjects' heartbeats could not be detected with a stethoscope after such a maneuver and that their arterial pulse could not be felt, though EKGs showed that their hearts were contracting normally with a deviation of axis to the right when the subjects held their breath after inspiration, and a deviation to the left after expiration. Furthermore, X-ray examinations showed that each subject's heart became narrower in transverse diameter and somewhat tubular while he was trying to stop it. The three yogis "could not stop . . . their heart beats," Anand and Chhina wrote, "[but] they greatly decreased their cardiac output by decreasing venous return [and] the decrease in cardiac output is responsible for the imperceptible arterial pulse. This practice of yogis is identical with the Valsalva maneuver." Like Bagchi and Wenger, they suggested that Brosse's experiment had been flawed because she had used a single EKG lead with her subject.

30. Anand et al., 1961. A second study with an airtight box reported by P. V. Karambelkar and associates compared the reactions of an accomplished yogi, a yoga student, and two controls during confinements ranging from 12 to 18 hours. The box used in this experiment was closely monitored for oxygen and carbon dioxide content, having been thoroughly tested for leakage, and the subjects were attached to an EKG, a respiratory strain gauge belt, an EEG, a blood pressure recording device, and a measure of their galvanic skin response. Each subject stayed in the box until its CO2 level caused him discomfort. The yogi remained for 18 hours, until the air he was breathing reached 7.7% CO2, while the other three stayed from 12 1/2 to 13 3/4 hours, when their CO2 levels reached 6.6 to 7.2%. The yogi stayed longer, the authors suggested, because he was habituated to such situations. But their yoga student, not their professional yogi, showed the least reduction in oxygen consumption as his CO2 levels increased. He could withstand higher levels of CO2, the authors argued, because for three years he had practiced the kumbhaka or breath-holding exercise of pranayama, which had trained his body to function with the increased alveolar CO2 the exercise produces. Subsequently, the professional yogi increased his pranayama practice and exhibited improved adaptation to CO2 (Karambelkar, Vinekar and Bhole, 1968; and Bhole, et al., 1967).

These are actually references from the main article: -(tenth paragraph down).

Adrian
 
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The heart thing is probably similar to what happens during heavy packing. I saw something similar about the heart being compressed during packing.
 
This is not the method Swami Rama used to stop his heart. He put his heart into ventricular fibrillation by visualizing the vagus nerve.
 
Vlado said:
Eric, could you please elaborate what you wrote to us, mere mortals?
What would be the definition on stopping your heart. I once had six seconds between heartbeats on 40 meters depth. Did my heart stop?

Same as with breatholding. Just a very long pause inbetween two breaths. Not so? :)
 
don't get confused- Better study de Bible instead of yogi.....

all this oriental practice what is doing in your live is deceiveing you!

Saludos

Daniel.
 
Hahahah

Daniel - When Are You Going To Learn!!!!

Stop The Preaching Already!!!

Its Not Funny Anymore.

i'LL STUDY WHATEVER THE F%$£ I LIKE
 
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Yoga is a scientific exploration of potentialities in the field of awareness. Strictly speaking an uncovering of what we are not - in that it is a reductive enquiry into the nature of identification. It can also be understood as developing something - along the lines of the Daoist 'Immortal Fetus'. Ultimately, of course, spiritual awakening is not the sum of any number of special capacities or doings - and it is important to keep the distinction in mind.

Unlike, for example - stoning people to death for picking up stones on Sunday - which, obviously, is a REAL spiritual practice. :mute :ban
 
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“They found that to accomplish this, all three increased their intrathoracic pressure by forceful abdominal contractions with closed glottis after inspiration or expiration”

This sounds a little similar to increasing the pressure in the sinus, thorax area by blowing against a held shut nose to hold off contractions.

Thanks for the link Adrian.
don
 
Yoga, scientific??
____________

Yoga has nothing to do with scientific?

or now the sciencie is wrong??

Or maybe those" Cientificos" are now practicing this ???
 
Daniel - When Are You Going To Learn!!!!

Stop The Preaching Already!!!

Its Not Funny Anymore.
_________________--

Of course this is not funny-- do you think is funny?

look to the example of Yaques mayol-- The "pionero" the one that introduce yoga in freediving and how his ended his life?

is that funny not to have a answer or a hope?? and still believe yoga is good?

no man ...Jesus is the answer

Saludos
 
Shaca - add him to your ignore list! it works!
 
Daniel, yoga is not based on belief, and therefore it is accesible to scientific enquiry. We are talking about physiological functions, and what you can do to change, control or alter them for specific purposes. This is not a belief system, and if you would actually study a bit of yoga, you would understand why so many people enjoy it for its benefits. Otherwise, you are just showing us that yoga is a very unknown field for you. Do not simply repeat what others have said, you have to find your own truths in this life. Do the seeking yourself, don't leave it up to others.

Adrian
 
shaneshac said:
Hahahah

Daniel - When Are You Going To Learn!!!!

Stop The Preaching Already!!!

Its Not Funny Anymore.

i'LL STUDY WHATEVER THE F%$£ I LIKE
rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
 
Highly innapropriate Daniel: you've been asked many times by many members in the past, to keep your preaching to yourself.
To curse a man for his suicide is evil enough and ironically lacking in anything resembling a true Christian ethic; to blame it on his philosophy without having any inkling of what demons or tragedies he faced in his life (something you know little about) is inexcusable and shows ignorance and lack of respect for him and those who were close to him.
I've been tolerant and extended olive branches to you a few times in the past, but from now on I will not. Your lack of understanding about your own beliefs, or your motivations, or any real self-awareness, or especially your lack of tolerance for others has surpassed tolerance here.
Grow up or shut up.
Erik Y.
 
First of all, I've stayed out of these debates on purpose. Religion and politics are simply topics I don't believe belong to this forum. I'm also not usually known to be the most avid defender of yoga but that's just because I've never bothered to look into it.

But I find the insult of a dead man so distasteful, I cannot just not reply.

I find the logic very strange. "A man, who practiced yoga, killed him self. Therefore it is proven that yoga is evil." As if no one who believed in Jesus never killed them selves? I'm not going to even get started on the things some priests have done...Come on.

We know absolutely nothing of the resons for Jacques making the decicion he did. It might as well be that yoga and passion for diving were the only things the kept him going as long as he did.

I think you'll find people much more open to religion if you introduce the subject subtly. No one enjoys being whacked in the head with a bible (or any other book for that matter).

And would you have approved if the subject had just been "scientific research and stopping the heart". There's nothing particularly "yoga" about using powerful abdobimal contractions to affect the heart. As it is said in the original quote, it is identical to the Valsalva maneuver. Oh, wait, Valsalva is another weird foreing sounding name...Must be evil!

Allright, now to promise my self I will never return to this subject again in this forum...
 
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The sun has risen in Dahab. The waterfrot is slowly awakening. I woke up an hour after the first prayers from the closest minaret had silenced. I have made myself a good habit of doing yoga with my mother every morning at seven here. Getting in tune for the last deep training dives for the triple depth competition. Yesterday I did a succesful dive to 54 (after a long yoga session). This was a personal best and felt good since it was close to a perfect dive. The kind of "welldeserved" fatigue you feel after maximum dive.

JOME Yoga has very little to do with reigion. If you practice it long enough I believe you might find some spirituality in yourself (and that spirituality has many names). But for us Freedivers YOGA is just physical and mental excercises.

Sad that the discussion gets spoiled.

Regarding insulting the dead - who knows maybe its worse insulting the living. As for Mayol we know something about why he killed himself - but that is another subject.

Today I will try to do a PB with my fins on. Only trouble is a throat thats soare from pressure. But having done some naoli, cobra, camel, sungreetings I feel relaxed and ready with a tingling of nervousness that comes with the ambition of trying to dive deeper than ever. But that stress is nothing that a few calming psychic breathings cannot take care of.

have a good day to you all.

Sebastian
 
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Hmm, if I was interpreted as confusing yoga with religion, I was misunderstood. My point was exactly the opposite.

In fact, my only beef with yoga is people trying to mystify it for no reason...Nothing wrong with the practice it self. BTW the exact same goes for diving...

As for insulting the dead. True, it's propably worse insulting the living. I should've phrased it as something like:
"Insulting the people close to him by making drastic assumptions of the events that lead to his tragic and dramatic parting and undermining him as a person by suggesting he was a helpless victim of some evil eastern philosophy, without having a clue what you're talking about."

"Insulting the dead" was shorter...
 
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neshamah said:
don't get confused- Better study de Bible instead of yogi.....

all this oriental practice what is doing in your live is deceiveing you!

Saludos

Daniel.

I think we have a lost case in here :D rofl
 
I think he should go to the shaolin temple and tell them to stop what they are doing.

He'll get an iron claw shoved down his throat and a sandal rammed up his gary.

Read the bible then PAYASO!!!!!
 
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