1.25 M/sec - too fast?

[Apneaddict]

I am trying to find my optimal speed for DYN and while I am not at the 100M club yet, I am closing in on it.

I am "down" to 1.25 M/sec with a medium waterway model 2 monofin with kick, kick, glide.

Previously I was at 1.4M/sec with bifins!

I am quite strong and my kicks just have a lot of power and I then glide a fairly good distance.

I can't seem to get any propulsion without a strong kick - that just seems to be my natural force exertion.

Should I "slow down" by moving to kick-glide... or is 1.25 still within the range of acceptable... altho on the higher side?

 

[Simos]

I'd try different approaches and see what works best for you - I would say it depends on your body.

Have you tried just kicks (with no glide)? If you get into a good rhythm you might find that you don't need to kick so hard.

Disclaimer: I am rubbish with a monofin but I have found that if you are losing too much momentum during the 'glide' it takes a disproportionately high energy to 'get going' again so I think it's worth experimenting a bit more/less glide and seeing what feels best. I have a feeling kick-glide might be a bit too slow...

 

[Apneaddict]

I just watched / timed Goran's 273m dive and it was approx 1.17m/sec.

This would appear to be the only thing even remotely close to my performances and his....
:t

 

[Fondueset]

I seem to be doing 100m at about 1:34-1:39. Not sure if I'm at optimal though.
I kick continuously. There is a trade of between drag and acceleration in the kick-glide approach - which I've yet to perfect.
I like going slow though - I've done 75m in 1:43 and routinely take 40-45 sec to do 25m (one kick)

 

[Simos]

Does any of the top freedivers do kick-glide (as opposed to kick-kick-glide)?

(I like going slowly too...)

 

[Fondueset]

I should add - I'm also going with no weights or suit. The 75s and 100s are with full lungs - so at slow speeds it gets a bit serpentine. the 25s and 50s I like to do FRC with long glides.

 

[azapa]

this may or may not make sense, but I take at least 2:00 to do 100m. Slow. I am also very slow in depth. 40MCNF takes me 2:10.

this is due to bad style and really trying to enjoy the swims without rushing them. works for me.

If you really want to go further at the beginning, I would suggest you forget about times all together and focus on a relaxed efficient style, enjoying every stroke.

 

[aris ioannidis]

Regarding top divers, I remember 2yrs ago in Aurhus WC, Fred Sessa doubled up on Guy Brew in the dynamic final... Fred exited at 228m i think when Guy was still at 130m. Guy kept going in his slow pace and exited at 230m and won!

So, there are different approaches in the speed/economy trade-off with succesfull cases in both. You need to experiment and find out what suits you best.

My experience was that i started off going ultra fast 5yrs ago (having a background in competitive swimming). After playing with it, I nowadays go quite slower in my max attempts: about 1.1m/sec in DYN and about 0.98m/sec in DNF.

I would try some extremely slow dynamics: barely moving and focusing on relaxation; chances are u may double your dive time and realize that a slow approach may be better. Neutral bouyancy ofcourse is key for that.

 

[Fondueset]

HI Azapa,

I'm guessing for dynamic that you are using weights to stay neutral. Part of my speed is trying to avoid floating up to the surface. I do like trying to go as slowly as possible, however, and you've given me a new goal

FYI - I used to go at about the same speed in constant with a monofin. There just seemed no reason to hurry on the way up and it feels so nice!

 

[aris ioannidis]

HI Azapa,

I'm guessing for dynamic that you are using weights to stay neutral. Part of my speed is trying to avoid floating up to the surface. I do like trying to go as slowly as possible, however, and you've given me a new goal

if u go full lung, weights are a must to get u to neutral bouyancy! it is much much easier this way. U do not float to the surface; all u care about is to relax and focus on moving forward. With neutral bouyancy u are much much more relaxed. U should definitery try it. For me, with 1mm suit i need a 5k neckweight to stay neutral.

 

[Fondueset]

In my pool sessions I like doing it the hard way
For shorter distances I adjust by emptying my lungs, however I am still getting used to the sensations of FRC so am quite conservative.

 

[Simos]

Regarding top divers, I remember 2yrs ago in Aurhus WC, Fred Sessa doubled up on Guy Brew in the dynamic final... Fred exited at 228m i think when Guy was still at 130m. Guy kept going in his slow pace and exited at 230m and won!

So, there are different approaches in the speed/economy trade-off with succesfull cases in both. You need to experiment and find out what suits you best.

My experience was that i started off going ultra fast 5yrs ago (having a background in competitive swimming). After playing with it, I nowadays go quite slower in my max attempts: about 1.1m/sec in DYN and about 0.98m/sec in DNF.

I would try some extremely slow dynamics: barely moving and focusing on relaxation; chances are u may double your dive time and realize that a slow approach may be better. Neutral bouyancy ofcourse is key for that.

Some great advice there Ari (that I will take up myself too as I get the chance). I 'make my life hard' too at training sessions - I don't dive neutral and even worse dive with small fins a lot of the time so I have to keep moving to stay down (luckily I am not buoyant at all so if I don't take a deep breath it's not too bad).

Do you find that going really slowly means that you have to compromise your monofin technique and kick more with the knees? (instead of proper undulation).

I know it sounds odd but when going super slowly, it feels like a small kick from the knees with the rest of the body barely moving and very small undulation is more efficient (and relaxing)...

 

[aris ioannidis]

In my pool sessions I like doing it the hard way
For shorter distances I adjust by emptying my lungs, however I am still getting used to the sensations of FRC so am quite conservative.

i see... but still why not adjust the hard part... instead of trying not to surface by continous swimming - which is hard... adjust to neutral boyancy and try to endure through with more contractions - which can be harder and probably more fulfilling!

about FRC i have no opinion for dynamics... i use FRC for static warm up and for depth but not in dynamics b/c i think full lung will give me better distance

 

[aris ioannidis]

Some great advice there Ari (that I will take up myself too as I get the chance). I 'make my life hard' too at training sessions - I don't dive neutral and even worse dive with small fins a lot of the time so I have to keep moving to stay down (luckily I am not buoyant at all so if I don't take a deep breath it's not too bad).

Do you find that going really slowly means that you have to compromise your monofin technique and kick more with the knees? (instead of proper undulation).

I know it sounds odd but when going super slowly, it feels like a small kick from the knees with the rest of the body barely moving and very small undulation is more efficient (and relaxing)...

thanks Simo, neutral boyancy i think is key... going slowly may indeed affect your technique but the purpose of the exersise for me is to focus on relaxation and endure through contractions aiming to increase my dive time.

Then, i would also do some laps with normal speed to work on technique