I recently did a PB 120 m dynamic with fins and have tons of questions. I did it in a 140m long pool in Mexico so there were no flip turns. I used Grafa 2000 freedive fins and a low volume mask. I have hairy legs and a dreadlock pony tail so not super hydrodynamic. My wife (and safety partner) timed my 120m swim at about 1 min 45 seconds . Also my best dryland static is (only) 4:30 as I have alot of troubles with having a higher heart rate for the first 2 minutes, sometimes it goes up over 100 bpm, then it falls to 40-50 for the last 2 minutes. So here are my questions: It seems weird that I can do 120 m and the world is 180 m, does it get really hard after say 150 m? It seems I am swimming much faster than others doing dynamic, is this true and is slower always better and would it help me? Others have written that when they do dynamics they get lots (maybe 6 or 8) of involuntary in-breaths (contractions) starting after only 1 minitue of swimming and during my dynamic I only got two very mild contractions right near the end, not the hard full blown contractions I get doing dryland static but only very mild throat gulping sort of contractions. I did not do any warm up swimming that morning and fasted from the night before. My breathe up is total 12 minutes sitting on edge of pool with 4 min slow relaxing breaths, 4 min of 4 count in breath, 8 count packing, and 4 count exhale, then 4 min of quick very deep breaths followed by last breath with full pack, maybe 15 gulps. Is this a reasonable breatheup? Also at the end I stopped because I "got scared" and "felt funny, like being all of a sudden paranoid", I didn't feel like I had to stop to breathe like I do when I do the static dryland apneas. I also didn't have any low Oxygen symptoms like stars in eyes or leg tingles or anything like that (and I have experienced these before in different open water deep feedives) and had very clean and easy exits. What do you think would have happened if I had kept swimming? Would I have gotten very hard contractions like in my static apneas, wouldl I have blacked out? Sorry if this is too long, I woud appreciate any tips, ideas, condemnations etc. Wes Lapp
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120m PB Dynamic Questions
- Thread starterwes
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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The world record is not 180 it is 212m. The extra 92 meters from your pb is a great distance, so i guess they will be hard. I guess that the 140m pool helped a lot to. At least for me it would be nice with no need to turn. Without fins i only benefit from a lot of turns.
I would love to try that 140m pool. What is the purpose with such a pool?
I would love to try that 140m pool. What is the purpose with such a pool?
Hi,
In every sport there is a kind of "non official" rule. It says something like "Is easier and shorter to get to middle level from basic level than get to advanced level from middle level".
The only sport I seriously practiced before freediving was swimming, and i remember how easy was to me to get to 59 secs in 100 mts. from 1:10 but to get to 57.32 secs, my life time personal best, was a trainning night mare during almost 6 months. I even changed my feeding habits to get there.
I´m sure that freediving as any other sport works the same. As nearer you are to human or personal limits, the harder you have to try to beat them. There are mental and physical barriers to beat.
Probably you have natural skills for freediving and got that great number through them. But i´m sure from now one each meter will cost you more and more, physically and mentally. Is the sport´s nature.
Regards,
Sigi...
In every sport there is a kind of "non official" rule. It says something like "Is easier and shorter to get to middle level from basic level than get to advanced level from middle level".
The only sport I seriously practiced before freediving was swimming, and i remember how easy was to me to get to 59 secs in 100 mts. from 1:10 but to get to 57.32 secs, my life time personal best, was a trainning night mare during almost 6 months. I even changed my feeding habits to get there.
I´m sure that freediving as any other sport works the same. As nearer you are to human or personal limits, the harder you have to try to beat them. There are mental and physical barriers to beat.
Probably you have natural skills for freediving and got that great number through them. But i´m sure from now one each meter will cost you more and more, physically and mentally. Is the sport´s nature.
Regards,
Sigi...
Sounds to me that you gave up far too soon. A couple gulps indicates the start of the struggle phase not the end of it. You didnt mention lactic build up, I guess therefore this did not occur, therefore a second indicator of giving up too soon. Your breath up also seems short and would not allow you to maximize the effort. Try doing an empty lung static table for 45 minutes, 5 minutes rest followed by the dynamic. Get proper safety cover and have another go. Your time seems fast for bi fins, so go a little slower, although because of your obvious swim fitness, you will be able to go faster so trade off some of this speed for a few seconds longer underwater. My pb is 156m with mono and lmc, my static is 4:30 too. So you are not alone in getting good distance in dynamic with a poor static.
"....then 4 min of quick very deep breaths..."
After four minutes of hyper ventillation, most of the warning signals are suppressed very well. Heck, after that prep I would probably have a black (red) out as soon as I started.
There seems to be very little correlation between dynamic and static. It's mostly a matter of training.
Aloha
Bill
After four minutes of hyper ventillation, most of the warning signals are suppressed very well. Heck, after that prep I would probably have a black (red) out as soon as I started.
There seems to be very little correlation between dynamic and static. It's mostly a matter of training.
Aloha
Bill
Intersting post...
Never thought of inserting packing into the breathup pattern (breath in, pack, breath out), has anyone else ever tried it?
Hyperventilation (like 4 minutes of fast breathing) can get your heartrate very high at the begining of the breathold. I'd say start playing with your speed and breathup and get a better CO2 tolerance to compensate for reducing the amount of hyperventilation. It is really hard to tell what works for every one, you'll have to discover it by yourself.
As for warning signs, although I never felt hypoxic in the pool I tend to think they are different than when diving vertically - no reverse gradient effect that lowers your blood O2 suddently. You might have well been close to your edge, this is why people try to train with consistency and increasing their PB's only a bit at a time and even repeating them a few times between attempts. Sometimes the warning signs are noticed too late or absent at all, even with good safety a freediver should aspire to never blackout. So the exploration into unfamilier territories should be minimized.
Never thought of inserting packing into the breathup pattern (breath in, pack, breath out), has anyone else ever tried it?
Hyperventilation (like 4 minutes of fast breathing) can get your heartrate very high at the begining of the breathold. I'd say start playing with your speed and breathup and get a better CO2 tolerance to compensate for reducing the amount of hyperventilation. It is really hard to tell what works for every one, you'll have to discover it by yourself.
As for warning signs, although I never felt hypoxic in the pool I tend to think they are different than when diving vertically - no reverse gradient effect that lowers your blood O2 suddently. You might have well been close to your edge, this is why people try to train with consistency and increasing their PB's only a bit at a time and even repeating them a few times between attempts. Sometimes the warning signs are noticed too late or absent at all, even with good safety a freediver should aspire to never blackout. So the exploration into unfamilier territories should be minimized.
Ofcoruse YOU have tried!! (what was I thinking?! 
)
Ever tried inserting reverse packing? with sub-neutral breathing and FRC diving?
)Ever tried inserting reverse packing? with sub-neutral breathing and FRC diving?
'' 4 min of quick very deep breaths''
my 2 cents:
i had seen a person in compitation he did 4 min quick deep breath like you when e jump into the water i was sure he is gonna get LMC but was not sure in which meter..he's best was 60 and did get BO around 75 anyway something hapeened different ..he get worse BO stayed under water like a long thin bottle stayed in deep of the poll tehy took him out .the doctor did not manage to return him in 2 min..at last he supplied surum him may gave him cortison ? not sure that! and he said to me out while talking out these guys are crayz
from now then i learned my limit X i give a point -%30 less. i never get SAMBA/BO up to ..i don't wanna get the feeling at all .cos' i remember tahat time3-4 person also get BO not strong like that due to seeing this case..their moral gone
my 2 cents:
i had seen a person in compitation he did 4 min quick deep breath like you when e jump into the water i was sure he is gonna get LMC but was not sure in which meter..he's best was 60 and did get BO around 75 anyway something hapeened different ..he get worse BO stayed under water like a long thin bottle stayed in deep of the poll tehy took him out .the doctor did not manage to return him in 2 min..at last he supplied surum him may gave him cortison ? not sure that! and he said to me out while talking out these guys are crayz
from now then i learned my limit X i give a point -%30 less. i never get SAMBA/BO up to ..i don't wanna get the feeling at all .cos' i remember tahat time3-4 person also get BO not strong like that due to seeing this case..their moral gone
Micheal
I find out that how much you manage you strech your rib cage mauscle without doing your blood alkaline..you fill your lung very well not talking %100 the best i find out %80 is the best..everyday trying different things..different warmups..i do not belive the norm is the true..each body is different type..like cars..some cars loves some oil think A,B,C,D are OİL sellers...all are selling same oils but i preffer let says C company cos' the car loves and gives the best performance with it!
I find out that how much you manage you strech your rib cage mauscle without doing your blood alkaline..you fill your lung very well not talking %100 the best i find out %80 is the best..everyday trying different things..different warmups..i do not belive the norm is the true..each body is different type..like cars..some cars loves some oil think A,B,C,D are OİL sellers...all are selling same oils but i preffer let says C company cos' the car loves and gives the best performance with it!
Sedate, I've heard somewhere before that the worse the person hyperventilate the worse the BO is likely to be. I'm not sure of the mechanism though.
I'm curious to know what the Dr. injected him, was it to make him start breathing again? if so then I'm not sure steroids work that fast... maybe epinephrin?
I'm curious to know what the Dr. injected him, was it to make him start breathing again? if so then I'm not sure steroids work that fast... maybe epinephrin?
Recently I was spotting someone doing static. He hyperventilated for at least 10 minutes. During the static, at about 2:50 he began to look distressed and tried to get to the surface. I picked him up immediately and he blacked out. It was not particularly serious and he soon came round, but I did tell him that it almost certainly happened because of excessive hyperventilation, and to try and cut right back on the hyperventilation before going for a max.
Lucia
Lucia
All,
Thanks so much for your excellent replies. I will here answer your questions.
-Not having to do turns helped alot I think, in my normal 25m training pool I feel I lose alot of ground doing turns with my fins on.
-On the world record comparison, of course this is correct, last 10% is much harder and even last 1% is as hard again.
-I did not get any lactic acid build up, I do back off on my fin kicks at the end and use fins and arms together in a side are "flutter" style" with the theory that there is some energy in the arms that I can use at the end that won't cost against O2 debt.
-I understand hyperventilating to be quick shallow breaths and have done this and can go in feeling quite dizzy and stars in eyes at first then feeling very good and this I think would be much more close to BO at the end. When I do rapid deep breaths they are very very deep so don't go that quickly like shallow hyperventillating does, not saying this is good or anything, just wanting to explain. I do packs in the middle of my warm up as I don't have separate training regime so to keep it simple I do everything at once, so whenever I rest or do a breatheup I do 1/3 as recovery breathing, 1/3 as slow breaths with packs and 1/3 as very deep quick breaths that are "mild hyperventallating/purging breaths". These last 1/3 breaths could be described as breathe out as long and hard as you can for 6 counts then breathe in as long and hard as you can for 6 counts with no break inbetween.
-I have attached a pic of the pool which is in Puerta Vallarta Mexico at the Mayan Palace Condo complex. The pool is a uniform 1 meter deep and purpose is for kids to play in mainly. As there wasn't much "diving" to be done at 1 meter depth I focused on my dynamic program. Thanks again and Cheers - Wes
Thanks so much for your excellent replies. I will here answer your questions.
-Not having to do turns helped alot I think, in my normal 25m training pool I feel I lose alot of ground doing turns with my fins on.
-On the world record comparison, of course this is correct, last 10% is much harder and even last 1% is as hard again.
-I did not get any lactic acid build up, I do back off on my fin kicks at the end and use fins and arms together in a side are "flutter" style" with the theory that there is some energy in the arms that I can use at the end that won't cost against O2 debt.
-I understand hyperventilating to be quick shallow breaths and have done this and can go in feeling quite dizzy and stars in eyes at first then feeling very good and this I think would be much more close to BO at the end. When I do rapid deep breaths they are very very deep so don't go that quickly like shallow hyperventillating does, not saying this is good or anything, just wanting to explain. I do packs in the middle of my warm up as I don't have separate training regime so to keep it simple I do everything at once, so whenever I rest or do a breatheup I do 1/3 as recovery breathing, 1/3 as slow breaths with packs and 1/3 as very deep quick breaths that are "mild hyperventallating/purging breaths". These last 1/3 breaths could be described as breathe out as long and hard as you can for 6 counts then breathe in as long and hard as you can for 6 counts with no break inbetween.
-I have attached a pic of the pool which is in Puerta Vallarta Mexico at the Mayan Palace Condo complex. The pool is a uniform 1 meter deep and purpose is for kids to play in mainly. As there wasn't much "diving" to be done at 1 meter depth I focused on my dynamic program. Thanks again and Cheers - Wes
Attachments
DeepThought said:
Micheal
it was for to make him breath again maybe over 1min later he opened his eyes i do not know what was inside of the serum..he injected it directly to his vein a little first, because he did not wake him up the rest in the syringe into serum..it was really tragic..
the diver said lately i do not remember that period looks like something you delete the part in hard disk as far i remember
last 4 years here 7 person died in the sea by SWB(spearos) 1 person died in the pool by BO(Breathhold after strong meal alone)
every years 1-2 goes but last year was 1 , mostly spearos forgetting to come to surface in deep or getting a beauty of a big fish
wes
Thank you for sharing us your experiments
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Wes, that's a very nice pool! Well done for the 120m. That's a very good distance.
I also concentrate on dynamic when I am in a shallow pool.
Your warm up sounds good. It's important to find something that works well for you.
Sedate, that's the worst blackout I've heard of! Must have been very scary for everyone involved.
Lucia
I also concentrate on dynamic when I am in a shallow pool.
Your warm up sounds good. It's important to find something that works well for you.
Sedate, that's the worst blackout I've heard of! Must have been very scary for everyone involved.
Lucia
An explanation of hook breaths...
[ame="http://forums.deeperblue.net/showpost.php?p=184937&postcount=2"]DeeperBlue Forums - View Single Post - What is a hook breath?[/ame]
LMC stands for Loss of Motor Control. It is when somone starts shaking or twitching uncontrollably because of lack of oxygen. It may happen on its own or as part of a blackout.
Lucia
[ame="http://forums.deeperblue.net/showpost.php?p=184937&postcount=2"]DeeperBlue Forums - View Single Post - What is a hook breath?[/ame]
LMC stands for Loss of Motor Control. It is when somone starts shaking or twitching uncontrollably because of lack of oxygen. It may happen on its own or as part of a blackout.
Lucia