• Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:

    • Join over 44,280+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
    • Participate in and browse from over 516,210+ posts.
    • Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
    • Post your own photos or view from 7,441+ user submitted images.
    • All this and much more...

    You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

20mm or 16mm

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

heebes

New Member
Dec 3, 2002
33
4
0
37
alright. ive got another question about spearguns. i think i have decided on either a 100cm rob allen, or a 100cm Omer Alluminum. now, the RA is offered with either a single 20mm band or twin 16mm bands. the omer is standard with an 18mm power band. which one is best? what are the advantages/disadvantages of a single 20mm (or 18mm) to twin 16mm bands? thanks for the help.
 
  • Like
Reactions: thud

Murat

Promethian
Jun 21, 2002
2,982
159
0
38
i have omer alluminium with 18mm bands with 6.3mm shaft, its deadly combination. If you put 7mm shaft and double bands on omer you can ruin the balance of the gun. This gun exactly designed and balanced for stock combination. The only thing to remmember with 6.3mm shaft is not to shoot to the rocks.

I have used both 18mm "POWER" omer bands and 20mm black energy bands, and 18mm bands are much much better gives you same power of the 20mm, even you can get more range by the elastýc property of the bands they are very very easy to load. I had very hard times to load 20mm black energy bands but 18mm bands are very easy even the gun is longer...
 

fuzz

Hawaiian transplant...
Sep 9, 2002
995
73
0
43
Heebes, if you go with the OMER, I agree with Murat(did I just say that?). The 18mm band will be a great balanced system. For some reason, my Alluminums came with 16mm bands :( The 18mm bands are wonderful. Quick, powerful, & easier to load than 20mm's.

If you go with a Rob Allen, it's really up to you. 1 band is quicker to load; however, 2 bands is easier(effort-wise per band) to load & gives you a bit added range. I like the 1 20mm band since it stays in parallel with the shaft & recoil doesn't seem as bad as the double band. Others prefer the double bands. All my Rob Allens were bought as double banded. I picked them all up from the place in my signature. After talking with Aaron(the owner), I decided that I might as well go with the double bands, then just buy 1 single 20 to try out. The 20 works great with the stock 7mm shaft & I even have 2 RA's set up with just 1 16mm band & a 6.5mm RA shaft. The latter setup is great since the band stretch for a RA is greater than a comparable eurogun(no screws on both ends & wishbone caps so it adds a decent amount of pull length).

As an added note for Rob Allens - I always buy double-notched shafts even for single 20mm bands(the stock shaft that comes with the 20mm model has 1 notch unless otherwise specified). I know some people say that this is bad since it has another weak point, but I've never noticed a problem. The shafts I've bent were either at the barb end of the shaft or the line hole slightly up the shaft and never had one break. The ease of loading a 20mm band(or even a single 16 towards the end of a day) by having that extra notch closer to the muzzle is worth it to me. As many RA users can attest, sometimes loading that last inch or two can be a beast. :blackeye
 

Murat

Promethian
Jun 21, 2002
2,982
159
0
38
Originally posted by fuzz
Heebes, if you go with the OMER, I agree with Murat(did I just say that?). The 18mm band will be a great balanced system. For some reason, my Alluminums came with 16mm bands


Did i just hear it right???:D

Marco Bardi ( italian spero champ., responsible from omer team italy, alluminum speargun designer) designed this speargun and while he designing it he get some info from underwater shooters (don't ask me what is this, i don't aware of this sport either). Underwater shooters said him they use 16mm band with 6mm shaft to get maximum accuracy, and thats why he decided to use 16mm bands on it. He also designed that 6.3mm shaft (not sure about this though) so now he had balance between power and accuracy. In med sea accuracy is more important than power, the fishes are comparatively smaller here. So first genration of alluminium guns came with 16mm bands, not sure what happened than so they start to use 18mm on it. But i know that my omer dealer here stated that we wants 18mm bands on it before order...

Info got from Marco Bardi official homepage hovewer they are may be some missunderstanding since it was italian and yahoo translater couldn't convert all the words...
 

Murat

Promethian
Jun 21, 2002
2,982
159
0
38
By the way, power band strech legth of the omer is realtively shorter comared to his barell length because carbon barell go deep inside to the handle.

My 100cm omer has 85cm band strech to the first notch and 94cm band sterch to the second notch. So you can consider to buy 110 instead of 100 if you will go for omer...
 

miles

BORN WILD!!!
Supporter
Jun 13, 2003
1,486
393
188
47
Hiya Heebes

What size fish are you shooting. If they're smaller than 5/6kg's try a single 16mm with a 6.5mm spear. Easy to load, enough power for most fish. I switched to a single 16mm just to mess around and have shot yellowtail in the 9-10kg class with a 100cm rabitech with a 16mm and a 6.3mm spear with no problems. Also found the 16mm to be very accurate.

Regards
miles
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. X and thud

fuzz

Hawaiian transplant...
Sep 9, 2002
995
73
0
43
Exactly Miles :D

With the 16mm sling & 6.5mm shaft, the recoil is so low that it's very easy to be accurate. It all depends on what kind of fish you're shooting, distance, & how much penetration you're trying to get.
 

Murat

Promethian
Jun 21, 2002
2,982
159
0
38
Hey fuzz did you solve your shooting high problem with RA?I will glad to see your long waited euro gun comparision in the articles section....
 

fuzz

Hawaiian transplant...
Sep 9, 2002
995
73
0
43
Murat, it made recoil significantly less, so accuracy was definitely a ton better. As far as the articles, I realized that while it was a great ambition, I use my guns too much... I will still post something with my personal opinions; however, it really wouldn't be an objective test since different guns have had changes to shafts, different wear on bands, etc.

So, yes I'll put something up, but it will be a "My Humble Opinion" review rather than a true accuracy shooting test ;)
 

w3ac

I should be working
Nov 8, 2002
338
54
0
44
Okay Fuzz,
Being a Hawaiian transplant and occasionally diving back home, what euro set up would you suggest? I will be getting a euro with reel in about a month and am torn between a RA 110 with two 9/16 (16mm?) bands or an OMER Excalibur 110 with a single 16 mm which I would change to a single 18 mm. Reason being is that my 55 Wong is an awesome gun but is a bit bulky for dives of more than 70 feet. I love the range and power but not the bulk. Target fish would be goats, Mu, Uku, Omilu, occasional Kahala, and open water Ulua. The Wong would be a cave gun, and the cannon would rule the blue. Most Big Island guys like the wood hence very little exposure to the euro. Any suggestions? Thanks.

Brad
 

Amphibious

Working Class Spearo
Mar 17, 2002
2,775
300
0
40
As I have neither an Omer or a Rob Allen speargun, take the following for what it's worth.

I had a single 16mm band on my 96cm Mundial Elite (rail and reel) and found it grossly underpowered. stepping up to twin 16's made for impressive power, but longer range accuracy suffered and i greatly disliked the loud "whump" when fired.

last summer I finnally got a single 20mm on it and was quite happy with the power and accuracy. yes it's a pain to load some times, the second notch is a HUGE BONUS, during long days on the water.

what fish are you after?
 

fuzz

Hawaiian transplant...
Sep 9, 2002
995
73
0
43
Originally posted by w3ac
Okay Fuzz,
Being a Hawaiian transplant and occasionally diving back home, what euro set up would you suggest? I will be getting a euro with reel in about a month and am torn between a RA 110 with two 9/16 (16mm?) bands or an OMER Excalibur 110 with a single 16 mm which I would change to a single 18 mm. Reason being is that my 55 Wong is an awesome gun but is a bit bulky for dives of more than 70 feet. I love the range and power but not the bulk. Target fish would be goats, Mu, Uku, Omilu, occasional Kahala, and open water Ulua. The Wong would be a cave gun, and the cannon would rule the blue. Most Big Island guys like the wood hence very little exposure to the euro. Any suggestions? Thanks.

Brad

What's up man?!! How's the diving been?
9/16 bands are actually 14mm. The double-banded 16mm's on the RA's are 5/8"(but pretty easy to load). The RA is a great gun. The one thing it doesn't have that you're looking for is a good reel or reel mounting system. The 2 most common things I see people doing is to either use an OMER pelagic reel or drill into the barrel, silicone the area, & mount a bracket for an OMER or Picasso reel. I have 2 OMER pelagic reels that are wonderful mechanically-speaking... but I can't use them. Just too dang bulky & hang too low.
If you really want a reel-gun, the best(that I've tried) is probably an OMER Alluminum with a omer50 reel. This reel is soooo smooth in comparison to the plastic junk I've used. It fits well, doesn't get in the way of the line release, & is still pretty streamlined. The Excalibur is a very close option & the reel would fit the same. Unfortunately, the reel costs a bit too... :waterwork:
If you want power, then the RA is the way to go. It'll give you the oomph you need for penetrating larger fish.

A lot of this also depends on your primary targets. For bigger fish, I'd say RA. The RA's handle the thicker shafts a bit better & the shafts are cheaper when you tag a big ulua or kahala ;) For more accurate shots & overall smoothness I'd use an Omer - especially the reel.

In any case, PM me & we'll work something out. I have a reel or two you could play with. :)

Originally posted by Amphibious
As I have neither an Omer or a Rob Allen speargun, take the following for what it's worth.

I had a single 16mm band on my 96cm Mundial Elite (rail and reel) and found it grossly underpowered. stepping up to twin 16's made for impressive power, but longer range accuracy suffered and i greatly disliked the loud "whump" when fired.

last summer I finnally got a single 20mm on it and was quite happy with the power and accuracy. yes it's a pain to load some times, the second notch is a HUGE BONUS, during long days on the water.

what fish are you after?

Willer!!! Long time no talk!

If my memory serves me correct, wasn't that 16mm band too long for the gun as well?

I still use my trusty Beuchat quite a bit. It's been through a lot, but it still works like a champ! :D My only real disappointment with Beuchat is their bands - weak stuff & dies quickly compared to other bands. IMHO, it's just not great quality. One of the primary reasons I converted it to an open muzzle gun. ;)
 

Amphibious

Working Class Spearo
Mar 17, 2002
2,775
300
0
40
heya fuzz - yeah - been busy here, but the ice is melting and I'm back into a freediving state of mind! and in one month I'll be chase bears, so time to scout some dive spots as well, the burbot are calling!

yup that 16mm was to long. I bought a shorter one but was still garbage. got a 20mm set of cressi bands from DiveInn on it now. some serious power. love'em. put a reel on it last summer too - so nice!

you're not on MSN Messenger anymore - what gives? :)
 

heebes

New Member
Dec 3, 2002
33
4
0
37
im going to be going after spadefish, tautog, amberjack to 65lbs, flounder, african pompano, cobia, and other inshore stuff. nothing in the blue (just yet)
 

w3ac

I should be working
Nov 8, 2002
338
54
0
44
Hey guys thanks for the replies.

Fuzz,
Let's definitely make a deal. I was thinking about the 50 or pelagic anyway. Would putting 2 bands on the Excalbur screw it up? the single 16 is not quite enough for me. Maybe the 18 mm or 2 16 mm would do the job. As far as diving goes, wrestling is still going so I haven't been in the water much. Josh and I went out a couple of weeks ago and he got a fat Uku with his 100 cm RA with twin 16 mm bands. He barely made it to the surface before he got spooled. I swam up and clipped my float line to his gun just in case. No problems though except for the missed back up shot from a rusty dive partner. He laughed it off but I still didn't get a slab of that fish :hmm. Had a few humpbacks scare the crap out of us as they swam right up the ledge to around 20 feet from us.

On a nother note, Iolani is looking like the team to beat again. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Don't you know sharing is caring? Waiakea still has never won a state team title in wrestling. Maybe one day though.

Willer,
Bear hunting huh? I heard they taste like pork. Anyway, target fish are: goatfish, Mu (emperor), Uku (green jodfish), Omilu (blue crevale), Kahala (AJ), Ulua (GT). The later two are more opportunity shots and not specific targets. Good luck with the scouting and hunt.

Brad
 

aydin

Well-Known Member
Sep 8, 2003
305
41
118
60
Hello Brad,
Are you sure that your Excalibur will carry double 18 or 16?
 

fuzz

Hawaiian transplant...
Sep 9, 2002
995
73
0
43
aydýn - it will carry double 16's & Brad never mentioned double 18s. :)

I'd go with the 18 & forget about using double 16s - that extra band not inline with the shaft seems to really affect euroguns. maybe because the lack of a rail or lightness of it. :confused:
 

Murat

Promethian
Jun 21, 2002
2,982
159
0
38
Originally posted by fuzz

I'd go with the 18 & forget about using double 16s - that extra band not inline with the shaft seems to really affect euroguns. maybe because the lack of a rail or lightness of it. :confused:


Did not you just said double 16 was not accurate even on your "railguns"?:confused: Or i missed the point againrofl
 

fuzz

Hawaiian transplant...
Sep 9, 2002
995
73
0
43
You missed the point again ;)
I consider the euroguns & south african guns(RA & Rabitech) as seperate, so I was referring to the OMER only.

I guess I should have clarified. I was responding to the following quote from Brad:
"Would putting 2 bands on the Excalbur screw it up? the single 16 is not quite enough for me. Maybe the 18 mm or 2 16 mm would do the job."

The OMERs seem to work great with single 16 or 18mm bands, but the 2nd band seems to throw it off a bit.
 
DeeperBlue.com - The Worlds Largest Community Dedicated To Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing

ABOUT US

ISSN 1469-865X | Copyright © 1996 - 2021 deeperblue.net limited.

DeeperBlue.com is the World's Largest Community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving, Spearfishing and Diving Travel.

We've been dedicated to bringing you the freshest news, features and discussions from around the underwater world since 1996.

ADVERT