A good Gun

[kale]

I have been doing a lot of reef speering here in the kelp beds in central california. Next year I want to start making a few trips to so cal in search of some pelagig fish. So I know my gun won't cut for wsb or yellowtail. I am wondering what is the best valued gun out there that will work for these fish. I would rather use a reel than a floatline but I know crap about this kind of hunting and am open to any advice . I am a broke college student so I don't want the best gun out there just a good one.
Much Thanks
Kale

 

[metelin]

i'm surprised to find that this is the first post, hope bill is recovering well.
first, i suggest the south african euro railguns or their american counterparts in 110-120cm, with two bands a 7mm shaft and slip tip.
then, the wood guns from all the well know makers in 55''-60'' with 3 5/8'' bands and a 5/16'' also with slip tip.
the price range is from $300 to $400 depending on size for the railguns and about $500 and up for the woodies.
get what you like, they all kill fish.

steve

 

[sickbugs]

what gun do u currently have?

 

[spaghetti]

I can't help Kale because I've never been hunting in the ocean and, I must confess, I've never shot a Yellowfin so far. So I'm not here to give suggestions, but to make a questions: what a hell of fishes do you guys hunt out there, to need at least a 300 dollars "guitar" to land them?

 

[strangelove]

Spaghetti

300 dollars is around the price of a good euro gun in U.S. , woodies are more expensive,

 

[spaghetti]

Spaghetti

300 dollars is around the price of a good euro gun in U.S., woodies are more expensive,

Ouch! :crutch. Thanks for making it clear.
However, my point was just a question: here in the Med when we target Amberjack and Leerfish (fishes in the range of 10 to 20 kilograms) we use a normal 100/120 cm eurogun with one or max two 16/18mm circular bands. Would it be enough for californian Wsb and Yft? (not talking about floats, bungees and whatever in the setup, but just about the gun). It's a question for curiosity, not any polemic intention at all, please believe me.

 

[kale]

I have a jbl xhd right now, it is a peice of junk but I have shot a lot of fish with it in kelp beds from close range, up to 25lbs. I have buddies with open water guns that are like six feet long or more. I am glad to hear that a 55"-60" will get it done for these fish. I will be stoked if I can use the same gun for socal and then be able to shoot big lings up here with it. I like those teak guns, I better start stackin' my chips though. Spagetti, here in America we have " the amazing shrinking dollar!"

 

[josedesucre]

But, Kale, if you want to go after "pelagics" in Southern Cal you are venturing into the most expensive segment of spearfishing!. To begin with, you need a boat. Otherwise, if you intend to go after them on foot, you still need a good size float/buoy. Unfortunately the gun you have now is not upgradeable, so you are right that you need a new piece, but you dont really need a six footer. Steve Metelin is a master in this field and his recomendations are solid gold. Check on ebay but dont bid on anything without researching it first. Remember also that big fish sometimes take away your gun, float and whatever else you have attached to that spear. More frequently, they bend those shafts to the point that left them unusable. As I said, it is expensive: avge cost of a spear alone is over $30.00. Finally, remember the mantra: either on boat or on foot, never go alone. Good luck!.

 

[sickbugs]

lol kale, are u really complaining about costs of spearguns there? take this for fun, in barbados, spearguns are considered a firearm (albeit you dont need a license for one, anyone over the age of 16 could go in a store and buy one) the only reason they are considered a firearm is so that they can charge a 200% duty on them.. a $300 US speargun, would cost $900 US here there are a few ways to get around this, which is why i'll be able to afford my beuchat marlin next year. however, i think i'll have one of the first highly modified marlins out there

if i had to make a suggestion on a gun for your conditions, having never dived there but from reading about it, id go with a 100-110 cm eurogun, slightly modified with a 7mm spear (rigged hawaiian style, flopper on the bottom) single wrap of line, or maybe possibly double wrap...but a single wrap will let you reach out and touch a fish 15-18 feet away.

 

[Ron S]

Since Steve is too modest or too objective to blow his own horn, I'll be the one to point out that he makes some outstanding guns at some very reasonable prices. Click on the poseidonsub link on his post to check out his guns...
Ron.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I do hate to disappoint Steve, and I am recovering well from surgery, so I might as well participate.

If price is a priority, then one of the Euro type guns- Rob Allen, Rabitech, or Aimrite- in a size from 110 cm to 120 might be the way to go. I think good divers are just about evenly split between reels and float line, but I use reels for white sea bass and yellowtail.

If you happen to win the lottery, than mid-handled teak guns or hybrid teak with either titanium or carbon fiber guns are probably a bit more effective in that they they can handle more bands and heavier shafts, along with slip tips, and are easier to swing in a given length.

And I know that Steve would be disappointed if I didn't show my arsenal of Wong guns. While I have all-wood guns, I'm partial to the hybrids from 55 to 60 inches for our local hunting.

While a boat is nice, you really don't need one. The world record 80 pound white sea bass was taken by a guy diving from the beach at Palos Verdes, and every year some of the largest fish are taken there. Some of the other largest fish are taken at La Jolla. I have a boat and like to go to the islands to get clear water, but I think in the long run I'd get larger fish if I stayed along the mainland coast.

 

[kale]

Thank you all very much! That is quite an armory you have there Bill. I think I have a pretty good idea of what I need now. I'm thinkin' a 55" mid handle wood gun with three 9/16 bands a 5/16 shaft and a reel.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I'm thinkin' a 55" mid handle wood gun with three 9/16 bands a 5/16 shaft and a reel.

That would be a good choice if the gun has enough mass to limit recoil with that shaft. If not, then a 9/32" shaft might be better. And if the gun had even more mass, then you could use 5/8" bands.

I'm not a Wong salesman and I'm not trying to say that there aren't other good choices, but since that's what I have, let me use them as examples.

My first Wong hybrid about 8 or 9 years ago was the "standard" 55" hybrid, the biggest one that Daryl made at the time. It used a 9/32" shaft and three 9/16" bands and was very accurate. Then he started making a 60" standard hybrid, and a friend and I jumped on it. They also used 9/32"/9/16". Both of us found that with a float line, it seemed to have some muzzle flip from recoil and shot a bit low. Then both of us put reels on our guns and they started hitting right on. Apparently it was right on the edge of being overpowered, and a Riffe reel added just enough mass to fix it.

More recently, Daryl has added magnum hybrids to his line. They have lead ballast in the butt, and some extra wood on the bottom surface of the butt to balance the lead and keep the gun from sinking after the shaft is out. They are able to use 5/16" shafts and 5/8" bands because they are heavier guns.

He still makes the standard hybrids, and as might be expected, they are less expensive than the magnums. I prefer my magnum if the water is clear, but my largest white sea bass was taken with the 55" regular hybrid. You just have to be a bit closer.

Another example- Riffe guns in the 55 and 60 inch sizes are overpowered and underweight with their standard 5/16" shafts and 5/8" bands, so they recoil and shoot low. I had a Riffe Island, and I always had to aim high, and a couple of times I badly bruised my chin when I didn't get a chance to lock my elbow. Then I added the Riffe muzzle wings, and it was accurate even with four bands.

Again, I'm not on commission with Wong. I have just found that they work for me. I just got one, got another, and ended up in a Wong rut with no reason to get out of it. And I like the lifetime warranty, which I have used a couple of times when the problem with the gun was all my fault. As Ron said, Steve's guns are said to be high quality, but I just haven't seen them or some of the other new offerings out there. I was simply using my Wongs to illustrate the trade-offs between weight, price, and performance so that you can use those principles in checking out guns.

 

[kale]

Thanks again, what a wealth of information. I like the idea of a lifetime warranty. Again, thanks for all the great info.
Kale

 

[Coral Sniper]

Hey Bill Thats the big prob with my Magnum it has a bad kick and the shaft heads way south. That has really been a pain because I thought that the Magnum would have a small kick. I put some smaller then stock bands on and it shoots good but I think it needs more power,maby I should ad a reel. Any advice

 

[Bill McIntyre]

Hey Bill Thats the big prob with my Magnum it has a bad kick and the shaft heads way south. That has really been a pain because I thought that the Magnum would have a small kick. I put some smaller then stock bands on and it shoots good but I think it needs more power,maby I should ad a reel. Any advice

I don't know how to explain that. My magnum has very little kick.

A reel might help, but if you don't want one in the first place, it would be an expensive fix. I think the better option would be to try a 9/32" shaft. That way you could keep the stock bands, and there would not be a problem with shaft whip because the enclosed track prevents it.

I used a 9/32" shaft in my magnum most of last year, and it worked well.

 

[miles]

Hiya

kale, as Bill M has mentioned, if you're in the financial position, a 55" Wong Hybrid will be a AWESOME option. The list price as per their website is US$ 580.00 for a alluminuim or Titanuim barrel Hybrid.

The SA railgun range are considerabily cheaper and are also extremely capable guns. Looking at your quarry, i'd say a 110-120cm railguns with 2x16mm bands will be sufficient to handle almost any fish you're likely to encounter. You can get a gun like this, either a Rob Allan Alluminuim or a Rabitech Alluminuim for US$200.00 to US$300.00 depending on model.

Another option is the Aimrite Railgun. These are also excellent choices. There have a very, very strong trigger mechanism and also come with a lifetime warranty. Price's are also under US$300.00 for a alluminuim gun.

Reel vs. Floatline.
if you're new to using reels, i'd advise sticking to a floatline at first. A 30lb Yellowtail will EASILY pull your gun from your hands!! Its also VERY easy to lose your reelgun, should you drop it!! Not forgetting the fact that a decent reel, like the Omer Pelagic range or the Aimrite reel or the RA reels are quite expensive!!

Just pointing out your options, cost wise.......

Regards
miles

 

[kale]

Thanks Miles, I really like the looks of the hybrid guns. I know I will be diving for the rest of my life so I may as well save some money and get the one I like, since I know I'll get my use out of it( unless I loose it:vangry , God forbid).Maybe I will get it insured . I am looking at a 55 in w/ mid handle and 3 5/8 bands and a 5/16 shaft. I am not too sure if I should get the enclosed track or carbon fiber, do these options have any major advantages.
Thanks again,

Kale

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I am not too sure if I should get the enclosed track or carbon fiber, do these options have any major advantages.
Thanks again,

Kale

The enclosed track thing is tricky. He has "semi-enclosed track" guns, meaning that the wood butt has an enclosed track, but that are not magnums.

Here is the one in the length you want.

H-SEMHT55 Hybrid - Semi Enclosed Track, Mid Handle,
Titanium Barrel "The G.R. Gun" 55 inch $699.00 5/16" diam


I may be missing something, but I'm not sure why that has an big advantage over the regular hybrids with open track. I guess it might enable you to use thicker bands with the thin 9/32" shaft and keep it from oscillating, but the track is cut for 5/16". Since the gun is not really apprecially heavier than the regular hybrids, I would think rocoil might be a problem with that shaft. Of course a lot of guys in Florida swear by them, and in fact he made them to satisfy a demand.

Anyway, if I were going to get semi-enclosed track in that length of a gun, I think I'd go all the way and get the magnum so as to have the extra ballast. You can use either shaft in the track, but whichever one you use, it will have less recoil than if it didn't have the ballast.

I suppose I should say that I do have the semi-enclosed track gun, non-magnum, in the 50" length, and I love it. Enclosed tracks make it easier to load if they do nothing else. Once you get the shaft into the track, you can't miss the trigger mechanism. And if the mono falls off the muzzle where it holds the shaft down, the shaft doesn't try to flop off of the muzzle. But my 50 is custom in that the track is cut for 9/32" anyway. I do use three 5/8" bands, but I think a 5/16" shaft would be pushing it.

So I guess I've gone in circles and found other reasons for enclosed track, but I would still go all the way and get the magnum.

Carbon fiber vs. titanium. Carbon fiber is stiffer, tougher, and prettier, but its also more expensive. I have both, and I can't say that I can tell the difference in performance. I'd get the carbon fiber is you can afford it.

Oops, this will probably really confuse the issue, but there is one more advantage to the enclosed track guns, whether or not they are magnums. Take a look at the two guns on the left side of my photo. The one on the far left is the 50" enclosed track. The one next to it is the 55" open track. Notice the butt extension and cap on the 55. The enclosed track guns don't have that extension, so the trigger mechanism is two inches farther back that on the same length gun with the butt extension, which gives two inches more band stretch, which means more power. How much more? I don't know.

I hope this wasn't too confusing.

And like Miles said, you could always get a Euro type gun for a lot less money.

 

[kale]

Wow, thanks for your expertise. I know a heck of a lot more about spearguns now. I will keep it all in mind. I am going nuts, the whole california coast has gone to crap:head . I went from diving every few days for the last 7 months to not diving in almost two weeks. It at least gives us time to plot next year's adventures. I am going to work as much as possible during winter break and buy a gun. I will post pics when I get my new piece.
Kale