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A good new book

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

Jon

Dairyland diver
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Apr 7, 2001
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After all the posts on some salacious books that don't exactly put freediving in a good light, I thought I'd mention a book I just bought that is a "must have" for any freediver. It's the DAN report from the recent freediving conference they held.

You can buy it here: https://www.diversalertnetwork.org/catalog/products/401-7800.html

There are lots of great topics including: DCS, Narcosis, SWB, Brain Damage, and something proposed by a NAVY researcher called the 60 second rule. Many of the major players are represented in here as well- Kirk, Tanya, Martin, Mandy, USN, Dr. Lundgren, ect.

I haven't made it all the way through just yet but one of the more interesting sections was on the idea of a 60 second time limit for dive outside of competition. The person who recommend it was trying to get the US navy to implement it fleet wide. IT seems that all of his data shows that dives of less than 60 seconds in nature have a very low SWB risk and that when you even extend things out to 90 seconds the rate goes up dramatically. HE sited that the AMA divers have been following this general rule for hundreds of years with an excellent safety record. Of course others int he book disagree and there's some interesting discussion that goes on but here's what I found most interesting about it. He theorizes that you can even get away with things like hyperventilation, which we all know is a big no-no for in water stuff, to make your dive more comfortable as long as you don't go past that 60 second time line.

Anyhow, there's lots more good stuff in there, like Kirk talking about his Type II bends hit from some seriously deep scooter dives and Tanya's description of what Narcosis is like past 400' on a breath hold dive.

Jon
 
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Hey Jon,
Thanks for posting the review - sounds interesting. Out of curiosity, recognizing it totally depends on individual strength/speed, how far can 60 seconds take a person down and back, round trip?
 
I can hit 100' with a monofin on, but it takes me longer with bi-fins.

Jon
 
Hey Jon,
Thanks for posting the review - sounds interesting. Out of curiosity, recognizing it totally depends on individual strength/speed, how far can 60 seconds take a person down and back, round trip?


Hi Jeanette!

Like Jon said, the optimal speed for freediver is 3ft/1m per second either way. So 30m dive should take about 60 seconds, 30s down and 30s back up. Now, if one can hold his breath for 3'50" like You do, there's deep to go. After my 100ft dive took me 1'09" Mandy told me to go little faster


Jon!

I remember Kirk talking about this conference. He told them that this idea of "60 second" is ridicilous but they're NAVY so they should know better. They are trying to make freediving safer, too many divers and spearos have died, so they came up with 60s solution. Kirk told them to promote buddy system to ensure safe dives but obviously 60s is better...
 
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In the book you can see where Kirk says this. He is a huge supporter of buddies, but as you know, buddies are a hard thing to come by around these parts.

Jon
 
Jon,

Thanks for the heads-up on the book. I'll be getting that one.

Hmmm, 60 sec per dive. Well, one problem. Darn few divers are all that willing to cut their dives short, too much work to get there.

Looked at another way, I don't think it is all that solid a rule. The few times were I got myself in samba trouble (could very easily have turned into a BO), were repetive, hyperventilating spearfishing dives in very shallow water with the shortest possible surface interval, lots and lots of fish. Wasn't keeping track of the time, but I'm resonably sure most, if not all, dives were less than 1 minute.

Connor
 
I am always on the lookout for new books on freediving so thanks for the heads up. I have put in my order and it was only $20 with no postage so it sounds like a good deal.
Will let you know more when I receive it.
 
Connor,

That was one of the arguments brought up in the discussion section of the report. The main supporter of this idea sited 02 saturation levels and how dramaticaly they drop off after 60 seconds.

He mentioned how the AMA can put in hours each day with a 1 minute up, one minute down, routine to depths of less than 60'. He then sited many deaths and bottom time profiles to back up his idea. As Nostres mentioned, Kirk comes out against any rule other than the buddy system.

It's an interesting read and this is just one topic out of the dozen, or so, that are included.

Jon
 
Surely there is a huge variation in the time at which a particular individual's O2 saturation drops significantly? Not to mention how a particular physiology deals with low O2? What about anerobic metabolism?
 
He mentioned how the AMA can put in hours each day with a 1 minute up, one minute down, routine to depths of less than 60'. He then sited many deaths and bottom time profiles to back up his idea. As Nostres mentioned, Kirk comes out against any rule other than the buddy system.
If my memory serves me, the Ama women dive connected to a rope and being pulled up by their husbands on the boats, no?
Or maybe that's the system in the South Korean island which the name of escapes me.
If that is the case then the statistics on fatalities can't really count as a safety reference at all. They can even have mild blackouts that could go unnoticed in these conditions.
(though their longevity might suggest they have no exposure to repititive blackouts)
 
I'm not condeming or supporting DR. Butler's ideas either way. I think it's just a great book with a lot of interesting ideas.

In his presentation he studied "non-elite" freedivers and tested their artieral 02 saturation while wroking, riding a bike underwater, and at rest. The saturation curves drop off after a minute in both cases- with the exercising diver's dropping much faster.

It does mention being on the surface long enough to recover before the next dive.

Other topics in the book include:

physiological mechanisms involved in SWB

SAMABA's and Mooglies and other effects of apnea

DAN breath hold accident database

Terry Mass presented on the freedivers's vest

Safety techniques- by Kirk Krack

Correlation between spleen size and hematocrit levels

DCS in AMA divers

Laryngospasm in breath-hold diving

And a bunch of other stuff that would take too long to type out.

Interesting book with a lot of good informaton in it.

Jon
 
Ive been doing under 1 min dives for years. Solo and never had a BO.
I very seldom see deeper than 30 ft! but then again they dont call me butter lung for nuthin :)

sounds like a good read Jon tanxs
 
Hey Jon,
Thanks for posting the review - sounds interesting. Out of curiosity, recognizing it totally depends on individual strength/speed, how far can 60 seconds take a person down and back, round trip?

Maytag
takes me about 60' to get to 33/35m using monofin (depending on current etc which we can get quite strong on some days) and with bifins to 30m. some days.. cant get down at all! :( (due to currents... get to 25m and pooped :D )
 
Hey just a little warning to those planning on ordering this book.
I went through the ordering process and gave the required details for payment and a few days later the right amount was debited to my visa. I was at this point thinking "sweet no postage" well there was no mention of it. But now a week later another amount has been taken out of my visa acct. -$15 for postage I assume. I would have been happy to pay this cost even though it is 75% of what the book itself cost but what annoys me is the way it was done - no notification about postage costs and having to do it in two transactions costs me more with all the bank fees, foreign exchange rates, etc. I wish they had have been clearer in the way they processed this transaction. Hope the book is worth it!
 
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That's a bit stiff.... when I ordered my copy I distinctly remember the freight being zero. Moral of the story? Don't trust scuba divers.....

What sort of delivery time can I expect?

Cheers,
Ben

ps the scuba comment was a joke..... I love scuba divers, honestly...
 
Ive been doing under 1 min dives for years. Solo and never had a BO.
I very seldom see deeper than 30 ft! but then again they dont call me butter lung for nuthin :)

sounds like a good read Jon tanxs

Off topic I know, the 60 second thing, but it makes so much sense to me. I spear solo nearly all the time. I am getting a suunto this week, will be setting that down time alarm to 60 seconds to see how it feels. Knowing me, it'll probably feel too long...:head
 
60 deconds seems kind of short, I know my own dives go much longer than that if the fish are skittish, but for solo diving it has me thinking.

Every single blackout, or samba, that I have had to help on has been with some one doing 2min- 2:30 dives. It didn't matter that these people had 5-6 min statics under their belt because in the water things always happen at 2 min- so 60 seconds is well within this limit.

Once you get the book look at the graphs and see where Sa02 starts to drop in all the subjects, whether exercising or at rest, and everything seems to go at just past the 1 min mark.

Maybe not a hard and fast rule for everyone, but part of an interesting read.

Jon
 
Well I got a package today from DAN and eagerly set about ripping it open to get started on a good read but als they sent me the wrong book "Diabetes and recreational diving: guidelines for the future". I am confident it is a good book but not the one I ordered and not one I have an interest in reading.
I have contacted them so will let you know what happens. They sent me the invoice for the correct title just the wrong book.
P.S. The previously mentioned price for postage was airmail so pricey but very prompt - a good deal overall (if and when I get the book)
 
I've ordered it from Dan Europe - they also have it in stock which might save on the mail costs for anyone over this side of the pond

www.daneurope.org
 
Great.... i'll probably get sent a copy of "The Lactating Diver" or something equally useful rofl


Mind you though Adam, lots of people have been asking about Diabetes and diving lately so you could become a DeeperBlue expert in the field!

Cheers,
Ben
 
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