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aerobics for freediving

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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caterpillar

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Mar 26, 2014
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Hello guys!
Im a beginner in freediving
I search and read and watch many things for freediving but most of them focus on breathing techniques and some other things except aerobic activities....
my question is freediving doesn't need aerobic activities like running or walking???
can you help me about this subject??
 
I will try to give a perspective from another relative beginner.

When I started freediving, my cardio/aerobic ability was rather mediocre, so I also started doing some standard gym/cardio activities at the same time and think they've definitely been helpful.

Hypothetically, if you struggle completing say 50/100m freestyle on the surface without going out of breath horribly, it stands to reason that trying to swim similar distances underwater without breathing isn't going to make it easier. Plus there are some other advantages like your heart rate will return back to resting quicker after exercise, which helps with recovery.

But there is probably a point when you have decent/good fitness, where additional improvements in aerobic ability aren't going to help much anymore (or may even be counterproductive according to some prominent members of this forum at the upper end of the ability spectrum).
 
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There is not a sport in the world including freediving where good physical fitness isn't an advantage.
The thing to remember is it's a sport it's supposed to be fun!!
I personally break up my training just to stop from going stale.
This sport has a mental component to it, taking a couple of weeks off to go mountain biking or what ever won't do you any harm if any thing it helps, if it freshens you up mentally.
Keep it simple if your not having fun there is something wrong with your training.
 
Cardio-vascular fitness cuts both ways in freediving, especially in static. In an overall sense, its better to be fit, helps much more than it hurts. There has been some speculation that extremely cardio-vascularly fit individuals may be exceeding the point where increasing fitness is beneficial, but I haven't seen it demonstrated conclusively.
 
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I read some ebooks and I watched many freediving training in youtube most of them spoke about yoga and some stretches but none of them mention about aerobics activities!
And as I read the aerobics activities can decrease the heart bits and make cardiovascular fit and we need low heart bit for freediving so why no one mention to aerobics for freediving?????
 
Be "fit" and healthy.

Do NOT be an endurance athlete or in spectacular cardiovascular shape, as this will hurt your apnea performance.

Don't condition your body to converting O2 to CO2 rapidly. Ho-hum / sluggish is more what we're going for. :D

You want to be "fit" so that you can recover reasonably well between dives and so that you're not gassed / spent on a surface swim to get to your dive spot... Even if it's past some breakers or against the tide.

Beyond that level of conditioning, I'd argue that it's not only diminishing returns, but it's hurting you.


That's one of the things that I love about freediving. It's a lazy-man's sport!

Our goal is to move as little and efficiently as possible and I'm rewarded for NOT doing cardio!!! AWESOME!! :D
 
I learned something for freediving like diaphragm breathing , inhale and exhale in double time and some other dry statics practise....
Im a beginner and My breath hold time is 1:29...
Can you help me to have a longer breath hold? Do you know some other exercise for this?
 
Such apps are very helpful when you are beginning. Part of the secret is staying relaxed. It gets easier and more natural as you practice the apps. You will see very large, probably very fast improvement. When you are fairly comfortable with a static apnea approaching2.5 minutes, you will be ready for more information.
 
I believe apnea training helps me jog better. And if you can jog 3+ miles per day, then I think you're gaining more control of your body and mind and more efficiently using oxygen... which is all beneficial in diving.
 
This is not correct Reindeer1984. Running will make sure that the oxygen is quickly transferred through your body and used by your muscles. With freediving you need something else and that is that you muscles don't work with Oxygen but with the energy stored by themselves (which causes lactic buildup). So in freediving you use the anaerobic instead of aerobic metabolism at later stages of a dive so this is quite opposite to running. You can find further information in several threads here.
 
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I think of running as more anaerobic while jogging is more aerobic. I alternate between jogging and sprinting. I still don't see why it would be harmful to exercise both aerobically and anaerobically. Your body will be able to switch modes more easily(... strengthen adaptability). I believe I have seen Stig Severinsen go "jogging" on TV. And isn't he one of the world's best freedivers?
 
Well, general speaking....training patterns for freediving are very vary between people and because freediving sport is still young, so no actual searches can recommend a standard training schedule or routine to be followed.

So what works better for you could not work good for someone else, so we can generalize any training advise.

We have seen some elite Freedivers who came from running background and they do great, others with not fats or at least minimum, and others even with big belly but they do great too, so you can't say this way of training is good for all or not. Better you try every way during your training season and see the result.

You will learn your body and will be able to build your own training pattern, which takes time and patience as well.

And that is the amazing thing about freediving it is vary and most of people can do it somehow!

Dive safe...never freedive alone!
 
It would help us to answer your question when you tell us what your current body state and abilities are.

Medium aerobic abilities are needed, outstanding aerobic abilities may prevent people getting past the 'easy' to learn first 5 minutes men, 4 for women.

Bad conditioning
The trouble with high level aerobic training is that one teaches the body to have the wrong reaction to low O2.
Under stress and high O2 needs, the body learns to increase the Heart Rate. Freedivers want it to stay down.

Some modest aerobic training in combination with a healthy diet can help to loose weight, clean up the body, cardio vascular system, and mind. However to prevent it from interfering with my freediving, I would not push the envelope, and slow down when I feel I'm getting out of breath. That means jogging instead of running. Or in water, just a modest pace you could keep up 'forever'.

Easy phase, struggle phase
In Freediving we have several phase's we go through. I just mention the two most important ones: Easy phase, struggle phase.
The easy phase is where your body has plenty of O2 and works aerobically.
The struggle phase starts when tension and or contractions set in, from then on there is a scarcity of O2 and abundance of CO2. The muscles will get less O2, and will change over to work anaerobically. This slows down the overall metabolism(O2 burning), and allows relaxed freedivers to swim so far beyond the easy phase. Usually the first 50-75m are the easy phase, after that it's the anaerobic phase, which is tough but can be learned to be tolerated and even enjoyed.

What will happen if you have a high Aerobic ability?
Well your heart is conditioned to speeding up and pumping more volume to accommodate the muscles, who are also better supplied by more and bigger veins, and can better absorb the O2 out of the bloodstream. The result is that instead of slowing down the circulation, and transferring to anaerobic muscle work, the body stays longer in aerobic, consuming much more O2 and leaving much less for the brain and heart to use. The final result is that these divers have to give up because they do not have enough O2 for their brain. They have very little or no 'leg burn' - acid build up, and recover quickly from their dives. Freedivers who have their body switch faster to 'freediving mode' will have their legs and other muscles feel like very heavy, even impossible to use, however they have still enough O2 in their bloodstream to sustain their heart and brain. Because their muscles are full of acid they can not do a similar dive without hours of recovery.

Due to the long and fast cycling to my job, I'm having a high aerobic ability, and therefore my dives have to end because of lack of O2 in circulation, whilst my muscles feel hardly no lactic acid at all.

I have a tall, slender body with little fat.


My advice is to seek to do a freediving course, and find dive buddies. Until you have those you can improve your swimming technique, build your neck weight, get a good freediving mask, snorkel and fins, read up on freediving, learn breathing and stretching and enjoy some modest easy phase dives - provided you religiously abstain from hyperventilating and make sure you're rested and warm and hydrated.

// edit: correcting a bunch of grammar.
 
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It would help your question when you tell us what your current body state and abilities are.

Medium aerobic abilities are needed, outstanding aerobic abilities may prevent people getting past the 'easy' to learn first 5 minutes men, 4 for women.

Bad conditioning
The trouble with high level aerobic training is that one teaches the body to have the wrong reaction to low O2.
Under stress and high O2 needs, the body learns to increase the Heart Rate. Freedivers want it to stay down.

Some modest aerobic training in combination with a healthy diet can help to loose weight, clean up the body, cardio vascular system, and mind. However to prevent it from interfering with my freediving, I would not push the envelope, and slow down when I feel I'm getting out of breath. That means jogging instead of running. Or in water, just a modest pace you could keep up 'forever'.

Easy fase, stuggle fase
In Freediving we have several fase's we go through. I just mention the two most important ones: Easy fase, stuggle fase.
The easy fase is where your body has plenty of O2 and works aerobically.
The struggle fase starts when tension and or contractions set in, from then on there is a scarcity of O2 and abundance of CO2. The muscles will get less O2, and will change over to work anaerobically. This slows down the overall metabolism(O2 burning), and allows relaxed freedivers to swim so far beyond the easy fase. Usually the first 50-75m are the easy fase, after that it's the anaerobic fase, which is tough but can be learned to be tolerated and even enjoyed.

What will happen if you have a high Aerobic ability?
Well your heart is conditioned to speeding up and pumping more volume to accommodate the muscles, who are also better supplied by more and bigger veins, and can better absorb the O2 out of the bloodstream. The result is that instead of slowing down the circulation, and transferring to anaerobic muscle work, the body stays longer in aerobic, consuming much more O2 and leaving much less for the brain and heart to use. The final result is that these divers have to give up because they do not have enough O2 for their brain. They have very little or no 'leg burn' - acid build up, and recover quickly from their dives. Freedivers who have their body switch faster to 'freediving mode' will have their legs and other muscles feel like very heavy, even impossible to use, however they have still enough O2 in their bloodstream to sustain their heart and brain. Because their muscles are full of acid they can not do a similar dive without hours of recovery.

Due to the long and fast cycling to my job, I'm having a high aerobic ability, and therefore my dives have to end because of lack of O2 in circulation, whilst my muscles feel hardly no lactic acid at all.

I have a tall, slender body with little fat.


My advice is to seek to do a freediving course, and find dive buddies. Until you have those you can improve your swimming technique, build your neck weight, get a good freediving mask, snorkel and fins, read up on freediving, learn breathing and stretching and enjoy some modest easy fase dives - provided you rebelliously abstain from hyperventilating and make sure you're rested and warm and hydrated.

1000000 likes for your article Kars
 
Hijacking the thread a bit, but Kars, how sure are you that outstanding aerobic ability and training hurt apnea?

I dive with some super aerobicly fit buddies, who have very long bottom times. One makes a point of getting extremely aerobicly fit before he comes on one of my trips. If that hurts him, it sure isn't obvious.

I agree that extreme aerobic fitness, in the absence of apnea training, probably delays the body's switch from aerobic to anerobic, dive reflex, etc. But, given apnea training and experience, does that still apply?

For sure, those guys are far more fit than me, and it really shows after 5 or 6 days of diving. By then, they are still charging and I'm spending way too much time in the boat. At least in this case, its better to be extremely fit.

Connor
 
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This is all quite interesting to consider. Flipping the equation. Just returned from a nice bike ride on the first beautiful Saturday. Had the impression that attention to calm breathing or lack of breathing monofinning this winter has translated to more peaceful breathing on the bike. Pleasantly surprised how well it went. Probably at a level where all fitness is beneficial.
 
Depth helps the dive-response, reducing blood circulation.

To sum it up, I have a good static (pb 7'), poor dynamic (150m), and reasonable CWT (65m) - limited due to lack of depth/buddies/training.

Diving deep I do have a more pronounced vascular constriction and lactic acid build up, especially when I go down as minimising effort and retaining the surface relaxation as much as possible.
When I take this approach to dynamic it means that I need to swim very slow and relaxed until the vascular constriction is manifesting. So before and during the dive I actively and mentally slow down my circulation, in order to have my muscles switch to anaerobic operation earlier. This works, and I was able to reach very close to old pb's without specific training: 106m dnf (pb 111). The Frog Flow exercise falls in line with this.

About aerobic ability, I think this is part factor body type and muscle type. Here's another thought: Having more muscle mass, makes the distance from the muscle fibres to the veins longer, demanding more pumping power for enough throughput. So I think more muscle mass can be beneficial provided you're able to reduce/stop the bloodflow to them. Then the extra blood can benefit the brain longer.
Examples just look up photo's of Stig, Stepanec, Alexey, Sessa, Goran, Herbert, Fattah, William on their record days, they all are muscled on the day of their record dives. Before those years: Umberto, Tanya, who both did the same training built-up: aerobics, strength, apnea. The current trend is doing less aerobics.

Disclaimer:
I've done no studies, I'm just interested in sharing my eclectic model of how the body mechanically works with you all. If you see an error please explain what is wrong and why. I welcome constructive feedback to verify and and or correct my current model. I have shared these particular thoughts before to people I regard as much smarter and knowledgeable then me, and they thought it was plausible and valid.​
 
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This is all quite interesting to consider. Flipping the equation. Just returned from a nice bike ride on the first beautiful Saturday. Had the impression that attention to calm breathing or lack of breathing monofinning this winter has translated to more peaceful breathing on the bike. Pleasantly surprised how well it went. Probably at a level where all fitness is beneficial.

Yes Chipswim, I think freediving helps us to stay much more relaxed when the CO2 gets high. It also teaches us easy belly breathing, diaphragm and chest flexibility, allowing for same volume with much less effort.
Even just unconscious relaxing, my breathing rate has slowed down much. So much so that a while a go a friend really noted how much slower and fewer breaths I took then her. She though I was doing this on purpose, but I wasn't.
Correct belly breathing really helps, and even when I'm on a bike its easy to keep normal breathing whilst going fast.
 
Kars,
I truly enjoy your 'eclectic' explanations of how the body works.

For the last seven days there has been 4 spear-fishermen here that came specifically to hunt pelagic game fish. I spent four days in the water with them (my first ever experience of diving with people with a working knowledge of freediving) and it was impressive to see how physically demanding their dives are.
They seem to heavily rely on aerobic ability. Admittedly I am not very fit and couldn't keep up with them for long, so had to follow in the boat for much of it. They managed to dive for extended periods stalking Wahoo and such. These dives consisted of a combination of quick bursts of fast kicks and moments of motionless drifting/sinking alternated with ultra slow fin moments to re-position and move up or down. Dives went mostly between 10 to 30 metres deep and lasted between 1 and 2 minutes sometimes for longer. What I found amazing was that these guys could fin on the surface (fast) against the current for a very long time, after which I was struggling to clear my snorkel when the waves pushed into it, but they could seemingly carry on diving in the same fashion in between.

Aerobic fitness/ability seem to benefit that level and intensity of activity. What I also found strange is that they would be in the water for about five hours at a time, sometimes with short breaks in between when landing a fish on the boat.

The hectic chasing after something only to get a photograph of the 'something' once you managed to outsmart and killed it is not my cup of tea, but what I appreciated from this experience is the front row seat I had. Observing the endurance of the experienced and well trained human body.

I was wondering if their bodies were adapted in a way to be able to do both things, like Kars explained it:

"Easy phase, struggle phase
In Freediving we have several phase's we go through. I just mention the two most important ones: Easy phase, struggle phase.
The easy phase is where your body has plenty of O2 and works aerobically.
The struggle phase starts when tension and or contractions set in, from then on there is a scarcity of O2 and abundance of CO2. The muscles will get less O2, and will change over to work anaerobically. This slows down the overall metabolism(O2 burning), and allows relaxed freedivers to swim so far beyond the easy phase. Usually the first 50-75m are the easy phase, after that it's the anaerobic phase, which is tough but can be learned to be tolerated and even enjoyed.

What will happen if you have a high Aerobic ability?
Well your heart is conditioned to speeding up and pumping more volume to accommodate the muscles, who are also better supplied by more and bigger veins, and can better absorb the O2 out of the bloodstream. The result is that instead of slowing down the circulation, and transferring to anaerobic muscle work, the body stays longer in aerobic, consuming much more O2 and leaving much less for the brain and heart to use. The final result is that these divers have to give up because they do not have enough O2 for their brain. They have very little or no 'leg burn' - acid build up, and recover quickly from their dives. Freedivers who have their body switch faster to 'freediving mode' will have their legs and other muscles feel like very heavy, even impossible to use, however they have still enough O2 in their bloodstream to sustain their heart and brain. Because their muscles are full of acid they can not do a similar dive without hours of recovery
"

What I mean is that it might be that their hearts are in deed conditioned to speed up, pumping more volume when they are finning along the surface, either to a new spot or chasing a buoy with a fish on the end of the line. And maybe their bodies are also conditioned to switch to proper freedive mode when they are down lying in wait, with their heart rate slowing, their brains go in super sharp mode but the body relaxes.

Or have I got it all wrong...
 
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