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Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2003
Picture a small bedouin village by the Red sea. A few camels blaring at dive shops and some newly built hotels. Then add doussins of freedivers - that makes:

The Aida Desert Freediving Camp of 2004.

It will take place during the 11th to the 20th of june in Egypt.

Local transport, hotels and food are dirt cheap. Water is clear and warm. Within the famous Blue Hole reef you find 95 meters of protected water a few strokes from shore.

Flights land a busride south of Dahab in Sharm-el-Sheik. Our host Lotta Ericson from Sweden (now resident in Dahab) will be our local contact arranging rooms, transport, lines, techdivers e t c.

Add a few Aida judges and there will be possibilities to make recordattempts under supreme conditions.

More info at: http://www.fridykning.org

Sebastian/ Sweden
I just thing you should know I consider it really low of you guys to arrange this at the same time as the cyprus competition.

Grow up!

Look here Sam...

There are several brands of toothpaste.

I took time of to go to Cyprus to attempt a swedish record (CNF). I freedive to compete - with myself and others. Cyprus turned out not to be an option for me. I believe in comparing myself to others along the same set of rules - this is a competetive sport. I have choosen the Aidarules.

What is really the problem. Cyprus has a 100 athletes. Deadline has passed (well it turned out not to be a deadline after all).

The ones who took time of from work for an aidacomp in june still has to dive.

Sebastian /Sweden
Just think it is a little "spoilt child" - why not hold it another week and allow more people the chance to enjoy freediving? and why put your athlete list as the "off fishing" list in a deliberate attempt to provoke. Finally.. to have the cheek to advertise it on Howard's website!!

I'd love to come to Dahab... but as you know I and about 100 others are busy that week...

maybe its different in Sweden but in the UK most employers are fairly flexible about changes to holiday dates 6 months in advance...

But Sam

There are enough freedivers for everyone. There are just some of us who doesnt want to go to Cyprus.
We do "allow more people the chance to enjoy freediving". We cannot threaten Howards event in any way. Its just a camp.

And Howards page is an open forum. He himself put a name on all those who wouldnt go to Cyprus. "Go fishing" and beeing OUT has been some kind of dirty words used on all who had the bad taste of not coming.

Next year I think the protest rule has been voted away (since judges will get better) and I hope Cyprus will be under aida rules again and I will be happy to dive with you guys. As for now we are eight people going to Dahab and that seems to be very provocative.

I was ecstatic when I heard about the event in Dahab as I will be living there from early Aprill and was worried I wouldnt have anyone to dive with, but when I saw the dates I was bummed to say the least as I'd already commited to going back to Cyprus and meeting up with friends from last year.
I'm proberbly not the only person who would have gone to both. I really dont care to much who runs or judges it. It just seems a pity that with so few freediving comps/getogethers on offer each year there couldnt have been a bit more forethought and planning with regard to dates?

I have to agree with Sam and Bevin and about the dates that the camp is set up for. I would have love to go to Dahab to dive in the Red Sea, and hopefully you guys will pick a different date next year to plan your event then even more people will attend.

About Howard's "IN" and "OUT" list lighten up. This guy is putting together one of the best comps I've attended and wants to have fun with it. If you take being "OUT" personally then thats something for you and your therapist to work out. Howard has a great sence of humor and is a very down to earth type of person. He has not put a tag on anyone in the freediving community. From everything that I have seen and heard from Howard the guy loves freediving and people who freedive no matter who they are.

I do believe that was pretty low to put an invite on Howard's site. At least Bill sent it to the AIDA group list.

Howards site???

Its a freediving forum.
Its not like it is his personal site. He arranges competitions, sells wetsuits, posters, videos, runs a magazine, writes articles. He keeps a debate with everyone in all issues on freediving in the freediver forum. I dont see you pointing finger at Umberto for inviting people to his courses on "Howards site".
The provocative thing for this huge Cyprus competition seems to be that a few guys that are dissapointed in Cyprus for not beeing an Aida event has choosen to get to gether at the same dates.
I could not afford to go to both so different dates would not help me. And next year I think the protest rule will be voted out of aida rules (me guessing) so I think that Howard can go with Aida rules if he chooses.
The desert camp is an alternative to the Cyprus event thats why it is the same date. I think the readers on the FREEDIVER page appreciated knowing about this. (we are not trying to sell porno or anything so I dont se whats "low"). He shouts IN all the time, I shout OUT.
I find it good actually talking to Howard over the forum so the voice of the out people can be heard.

But as you say - I might have missinterpreted the tone in the constant OUT. Because I took it personally. And I have no therapist - I will canalise my energy into taking part in the Dahab thing instead. "Go fishing" - yes thats - what I will do.
But I hate seeing rifts in the freediving world. CMAS will eat us alive if we dont stick together. I hope the Cyprus event will do that for those 100 who are there - we need unity - and we need to look for similarities in our passion.
Me having fun in Dahab wont spoil it for you DSV - it will be nice to hear all the stories from Cyprus.

After reading your post on both sites I think I realized what you were trying to get at and I apologies if I insulted you.

I hope next year you guys do the camp at a different time because I would like to go. It is going to be very expencive for me to bring my family to Cyprus as the exchange rate is $0.46 US to $1.00 Cypriot pound and it would be way cheaper to go to Egypt.

I was hoping the "World Championships" were going to be in Egypt this year, but that didn't happen because of some AIDA political manuevering.

I just thought that posting the same dates for your camp was in bad taste. It seem that you guys were trying to get back at Howard and I think that is how a lot of people took that.

I too hope that the organizers of any comp or camp and AIDA get it together for the freedivers that make up the AIDA organization.

For the record Sebastian - Umberto called Howard and checked it was ok before posting his course details on the website. I did the same before I posted my competition details. It's just polite.....

Great thing you are organising, I love freediving the Red Sea and have never been to Dahab despite living out there for 2 years... wish I could have come!

Here is an intresting link about diving conditions i Dahab.

best in the world 2003

And of course this one:


PS. Thanks for the tone in you last post Sam. It gets a bit harsh on either side sometimes. And you are right maybe I should have asked - but you see the freediver list use to be very official and world wide and not controlled in any way - now it might be more of a way for Howard to keep in touch with his athletes.

And yes I agree with Howard
"never let anyone tell you where you can freedive"

"AIDA political maneuvering?".

Simple vote, majority of the AIDA Assembly Delegates selected Vancouver.
I'll admit I was also a bit surprised that Vancouver got the nod, only because when it was put to the floor at an informal meeting in Cyprus, Vancouver got about 1 vote to Egypts' 99.
I'm shure there were deciding factors that we were'nt party to at that stage. Maybe they should have been published along with the final decision, just so's that some of us dont loose faith in democracy.

Of course I was allowed to vote. As a board member I got one vote and then CAFA got one vote.

The AIDA Assembly voted on this issue with the assembly being made up of all the 'current' (paid memberships) AIDA Nationals (countries) and the AIDA Board. The same organizational structure used by the IOC and most international sport federations.

Do you think I shouldn't have been allowed to vote? Does the President of the US not get to vote for himself in an election?


I guess what I'm trying to say is, that it may seem to some people that there was a little bit of bias on the AIDA board for that vote. You do have a closer connection to the rest of the AIDA board than most.

Do you think if the tides were turned that you would feel the same? i.e. If Jen and Yaheia were on the "AIDA board" and you weren't.


P.S. I think our Pres. should be impeach! Just my opinion. Don't take that personally.

If they were on the AIDA Board I would expect them to vote for themselves as Board members and as AIDA Egypt if they were the responsibles for it. That's the advantage of taking a leadership role and the responsibility, you get a vote to use where you see it'll best be used.

I have no idea of who voted for what within the board, although I know that Canada didn't have the full support of all the AIDA board members. That doesn't bother me and in fact it's good to have different opinions.

I think we won, albiet by a slight margin, because we've proved ourselves as an association who haven't been afraid to organize full on competitions over the past 4 years. In that time we've put together some impressive teams, some world class athletes and have organized over 13 competitions involving static, constant and dynamic. We also organized our bid in an effecient manner with full website, all the information that was required and on time. In the end I think we won because at Cyprus I made appeals to everyone to get organized or we wouldn't have a world championships and we were the first to put our hats in to make sure one happened.

In the end we'll see the world championships in Egypt sometime and I'll be the first to offer my services to Yehia and Jennifer who are great friends and were also the first to publicly support our bid AND who have registered a team to come to Canada. I'm really more impressed with that and look forward to showing them our beautiful city, people and most importantly, a great competition :>)

Take care and good luck with the IFB.


I was in Cyprus and actually was one of the chairpersons of the AIDA Assembly talk. There was never a vote about Egypt and Canada and certainly not to your 1 to 99 number? Wondering where you pulled that one from?

Lastly, there was no deciding factors to take into account? It can't be any simpler. Egypt and Canada put together bid proposals, AIDA Assembly (approx 8 board members and 34 countries at the time) reviewed them and then simple vote. No extra points to award for anything or points to subtract.

Now, it doesn't mean that Egypt didn't lobby certain AIDA nationals for their support or that we didn't either. Welcome to the world bid proposals.

I think you guys watch too much X-Files....just kidding ;.)

Take care,
Regarding the The Aida vote and Canada World cup.

Since this conversation seems somewhat important for you two - I forgive you for wrecking my initial thread of discussion ;-) - and I join you.

I think we have got a very serious and competent organizer of the next World Cup. And I am sure the there will be a world championship or cup in egypt in the near future. Aida as a whole is getting more an more professional and learning by misstakes and experiences.

When rumours start spreading they spread fast and once a common belief is set it is very hard to change it. The one trying to explain will sound like he is trying to cover up something that got out.

I have heard many rumours that the Aida vote in this issue wasnt totally fair game. I have heard aidaathletes deciding not going to Vancouver because of this (could be they find it expensive and are dissapointed - who knows). Me myself, since I care about Aida and the future of freediving, have been trying to find out as much as possible about this. I have talked to people I trust and have more sourceinformation than me and they have said they find nothing wrong.

The problem as I see it is that me and many others have not actually seen the EXACT result of that vote (my national representative might have forgotten to pass it on).

I would actually like to know exactly what each country delegate voted in every issue in the assembly - I think that this practice would clear a lot of talk and possible corruption (once money enters this sport in earnest corruption is a possibility).

Transparancy is important I think - and I will add what I think and know to this infected discussion (refering to talk generally).

This is the rumor I have heard:
When looking at the cast votes of the world cup bid 2004 I THINK (not sure) we will se a lot (how many I have no idea) of votes that were declared not valid. The country delegate did not follow the correct proceedure (was late, sent to the wrong place - I am only guessing here.

To build any organization - country, family, society - LAWS are needed (common sense does not always work) - and it has to be the same rules to everyone. If votes were deemed unvalid it were because they didnt follow the rules that were set up and KNOWN to every delegate. Rules that were there to insure fairness.

If one as an Aida athlete want to know more about this I suggest you talk to your national board and the representative you have in the assembly.

Now the votes have been cast and the issue has decided - we have a very well planned event on the way (judging by what we hear). We can be looking forward to this and many more big competitions in the future - and Egypt is such a obvious good place to dive that we will all meet there one day aswell.

Sebastian /Sweden
Hi Kirk
Wasnt trying to start rumors or imply anything untoward about the voting procedure. I appologise if thats how it seemed.
The 'vote' I was refering to was, as I maybe didnt make clear, a very informal vote.(though still a vote in my books. I was at the meeting.) It was more "who wants to have the cup in Egypt?" and there were a lot of cheers and raised hands form the audience, "who wants to have the cup in Vancouver?", and I honestly dont remember a cheer. '99/1' was a figure of speech. No votes were counted.

By 'deciding factors' I was only refering to things that would have been contained in a later bid proposal(costs, accomodation, Canadas track record etc) and that people werent taking into account at the time of the meeting in Cyprus. I'll concede the response at that meeting was more an indication of peoples knee jerk reaction to warm&blue vs. cold&green. Upon further thought people may well have realized that Vancouver wasn't woted the worlds best city for nothing, or that cold&green might be a nice change, or that CAFA know how to run a tight ship. It just surprised me. And I'll admit I was a bit bummed, not because I wouldnt want to dive in Canada, but because I cant afford the flight from South Africa.
Enough talk I recon. As you say Sebastian, time to start looking forward.
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