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Aida Egypt 2006

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

drhesham1

New Member
Dec 11, 2006
12
1
0
Hello Everyone
This Is Dr Hesham Emad The Official Resident Doctor Here In The Competetion
I Would Be Very Happy To Inform Any One About The Results Or The Records As I Finished Now Writing The Medical Reports And Drug Declaration I Ve Some Time To Answer Those Far From The Competetion About Any Events Here
Also I Ll Post Some Pictures Live In Here
I M Reaaly Having Fun As It Is Very Interesting As Medical Doctor And Rescue Diver To Share For Providing Medical Service And Also For Working With World Champions

Yours
Dr-hesham Emad
 
Hello Doc,

Welcome at DB! Nice to see another medical expert in our rows. There are other experts posting on DB too, including one of the most known freediving medical researchers - [ame="http://forums.deeperblue.net/member.php?u=3003"]View Profile: DrLindholm@@AMEPARAM@@View Profile: DrLindholm</title>@@AMEPARAM@@DrLindholm[/ame]. I would just wish they were more active, posted more often some information, and participated in medicine and physiology related threads more frequently.

I hope that you posted not only to promote your services, but that you will become an active member and will be helping DB members with useful advices. Being an active forum member is in fact the best promotion of your own business too - people will tend to contact you for business much easier if they already know you as an active community member.

If you want to get specialized in freediving medicine, you should definitely also join the forum of the WFDMA (World Freediving Medical Association)
 
i m just trying to be active here as im really active in many forums but actually iwas very busy the hole last days and unfortunatly we had an american blackout today which i ll right about later
thanks for the forum u send me TRUX
 
Question:
world champion Static Apneists, sacrifice braincells for bragging rights, and I am assuming some cash prizes, as well as some well deserved fame, and good old fashioned scientific data; correct?

I am asking wether or not the old standard medical assumptions on Brain Hypoxia, and permanent damage after 4 mins of apnea still hold appropriate?
I figure that no one really knows accurately because you all in the Freediving Medical community are still trying to study brain scans of compeditive apneists to determin exactly where it begins and ends.

according to the latest gossip, the 9min barrier has been surpassed, too bad it wasnt as big of a publicity stunt as David Blaine, but sadly he was never a compeditor was he? is anyone scanning his brain after his blackout? probably not, he was famous, and a worthy guinea pig for non compeditive apnea. He could have become a base line for more healthy and capable apneists.

how many static sessions over 4 minutes before too many cells have been lost? I am not an apneist for competition, nor would I pursue it. I freedive photograph, and spearfish, and keep Dynamic times (the only practical kind of apnea) to reasonable limits. no more than two minutes total.

I guess being the worlds guinea pig for fame and proffit doesnt appeal to my better judgement. but I wonder where the sensibility ends, and the pursuit of a number at the result of permanent damage begins.

just curious about the medical communitys thoughts on this matter.

TBGSUB.
 
tbgsub said:
Question:...I am asking wether or not the old standard medical assumptions on Brain Hypoxia, and permanent damage after 4 mins of apnea still hold appropriate?...
The line of thought in the sport goes like this:

First, it's not that damage occurs after 3 or 4 minutes of apnea but, rather, that damage occurs after 3 or 4 minutes of hypoxia.

As long as the mind is conscious, it has oxygen. Hence, the surface protocols are designed to test and encourage consciousness at the end of an apnea performance. A clean performance means the brain has not been robbed of oxygen.

The clock on brain damage would start ticking after the loss of consciousness or blackout. If a person remains unconscious for several minutes without oxygen, then we might expect brain damage. Blackouts are the way that the brain tells us to quit holding our breath, that it needs oxygen, and it shutting down this conscious behavior.

I have noticed that apnea attracts some very intelligent and educated people. Search these forums for discussions that apnea may even help brain function. Although, I can't do math very well after a maximum dynamic during the first minute.

Anyway that's a layman's comments from trenches of the spoprt. Like you said: let's hear from the medical community.

Peace,
Glen
 
Cash and Fame? Hmm...Better start training

But seriously, I think in the current situation it usually costs more to enter a competition than you can potentially earn from it. Not many huge cash prizes in freediving...Only a hand full make a living from it and even them mostly from training others.
 
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I've....err....done a handful of statics....errr....errr...umm...over 5 minutes and find that...errr...my line of thought....errr...is still...ummm...perfect. Mi spalling is stil purfect two. Yes.
 
I've....err....done a handful of statics....errr....errr...umm...over 5 minutes and find that...errr...my line of thought....errr...is still...ummm...perfect. Mi spalling is stil purfect two. Yes.
 
tbgsub said:
I am asking wether or not the old standard medical assumptions on Brain Hypoxia, and permanent damage after 4 mins of apnea still hold appropriate?
Tbgsub, I think it is the highest time you start learning something about the sport you are exercising! It is rather surprising that someone doing the sport and being part of the freediving community knows so little about breath-holding. As others wrote, you are not in hypoxia in the very second you shut your mouth and stop breathing.

It may be true that at untrained person, brain can start being hypoxic within a few minutes, but the reason we train static apnea is to learn the organism switching to a saving mode quickly and hence prolonging so the time until you get hypoxic. One important part of this mechanism is called mammalian diving reflex and it involves vasoconstriction, blood-shift, change of heart-rate and metabolism, mobilization of hemoglobin cells, and other effects. Top freedivers are usually able to trigger quite strong diving reflex and quite early after starting the breath-hold.

Relaxation of muscles and menatal relaxation are also important factors in saving oxygen. Skilled freedivers are well familiar with the techiques to reach perfect relaxation quickly.

Another reason top freedivers can hold breath so long is the pulmonary capacity - by training the diaphragm and ribcage flexibility they often manage to have the maximal capacity otherwise unseen and persons of similar body physiology. They further increase the volume of air by so-called packing, when they pressure the air inside lungs by "gulping" some additional mouth-fills of air. Although this technique it is not considered being without serious risks, it is commonly used by top freedivers, and can increase the volume of air by several liters.

So if a freediver gets hypoxic, it is usually at the very end of the apnea, and definitely not in the level where it would endanger his/her life or brain cells - LMC and blackout would come first anyway.
 
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by training the diaphragm and ribcage flexibility they often manage to have the maximal capacity otherwise unseen and persons of similar body physiology.
I use a lung trainer cautiously, but daily. any studies on Lung trainers effects on the lungs?

I let cool water into my suit in the beginning of my dives for this reason. the water here is 29C and 100ft vis all year except after rain storm events for 7 days. By then the current takes all the turbidity out to sea.

this section on vasoconstriction/mamalian refelx, and packing was all nicely covered in the copy of Freediving by David Sipperly and Terry Maas, Physiology I, Page 25-38. I refer to it repeatedly. hence my newbie decision to unhastily limit my submarine moments either killing fish to eat them, or photographing them, to not much more than a minute till I get a cressi EDY computer to more accurately gage time, and track my diving habits. I am sure you will want to RAIL me over diving without a Computer, but I assure you it can be done safely keeping in mind Ama divers have done this for many years, so did all of the early pioneers of Freediving, such as Wally Potts, Prodanovich, and many others unknown to the modern world. their knowledge had to be preserved orally rather than textually such as this forum, which I am greatful for.

perhaps my question got mired in a miss understanding of approximate Hypoxic state and the variability among individuals, for supressing hypoxia, my appologies.

As for my question, personally, I was curious, about the opinions of many in the apnea medical community. I expected some of the response to be clynical, and perhaps a bit Curt in lieu of my lacking terminology, and complete understanding of hypoxia; plese excuse me, I dont even come close to that state spearfishing, and I qualified my question as a non competitive diver.

what I did expect was some professional curtesy in answering what is perhaps, not just mine, but a common misconception regarding hypoxia outside of competition. I am sure each time someone blacks out, there are twelve compeditors formulating theories on what led up to the Hypoxia, and even then, maby one of them is close to determining what really caused it.

They further increase the volume of air by so-called packing, when they pressure the air inside lungs by "gulping" some additional mouth-fills of air.
I have a buddy I hunt with who does this for 2min bottom times at 25M while waiting for fish. (3 min total time) dont get me wrong, it is nice, but I think it is a bit risky. he has been spearing since he was 9, I have only started 7 months ago (big admition about my initial questoin, and my perception), but I follow as a humble student and respect what he tells me. I hold my own close to 20M for less than a minute, and dont push longer without a timer and some more experience. I have easily blown a comfortable TLC of 6000CC on a spirometer. So that makes me normal for a healthy adult, nothing special, but it can be improved slightly with some practice, and exercise.

thanks, for the reply, your answer was revealing on many levels about compeditive freedivers from Europe.
I hope you can manage to relax when you compete next or it will disrupt your MAX, and if you are a practising PHD then I am sure you know how important relaxation is to freediving and surgery, as well as responding to posts.

TBGSUB.
"I get it now, Black out first, then brain damage occurs; so as long as I dont black out, I can explain vasoconstriction, and mammalian reflex to newbies without flipping though my little book again."
 
these r very nice replies but the point i ve to declare is that
the brain as any part of the body get trained
and get used to the hypoxia and what is amazing is that
the time the brain can remain without oxygen is not a fixed number of minutes till now we find this number increasing but the latest studies
dont declare the fact as fixed number putting into consideration the individual varieties and the training ...
i can post u the studies also if u r interested
dr-hesham emad
 
Yes, Doc, please post any material you can. There are definitely many members here who are iterested in the physiology, so any input is very welcome.
 
ok so we first start with the results of everything happened
in this champion ship here in excel file attached
and then i ll send studies and medical reports
but please note that a new world record was done by HERBERT NITSCH
after the competetion it was 9 minutes 04 seconds for the static apnea
dr.hesham

NB: XLS document removed due to inclusion of private information (Erik)
 
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so here in next replies ill send u even the medical reports of the athletes after their personal agreement to do that first i ve to chaeck
because for example the medical report of ANNABILL the american coach
blackout was requested from me maaany times but i ll send everyone to ask
and the athlete who agrees to post his report i ll do it 4 u
thanks
dr-hesham
 
so here as i said evrything will be posted but
as an ethical issue i ll contact the athlete first asking to post his or her report as for example the report of ANNABILL the american coach blackout was requested many times but i ll check first then send
thanks
dr.hesham
 
Hi Dr Hesham

My name is Tim Money, I competed in WC in hurgada and blacked out in the constant weight competition. Apart from a BO in a pool over 2 years ago (just pushing myslef too hard with little or no experience) this is the first time it has happened, so I am having a good hard look to try and find cause and solution.

Being new to competition and not too deep or long, I am not sure how interesting my details would be to you or this thread but am willing to have scrutinised. I was examined and spoke to a doctor after the BO, maybe this was you.

Let me know if you want any details or consent.

Tim
 
drhesham1 said:
ok so we first start with the results of everything happened
in this champion ship here in excel file attached
Thanks, Doc, for the Excel chart. However, I am persuaded it was not very wise to post it publicly before removing personal data of the participants. The excel file includes sensitive data including the passport numbers, payment details, and more - I am quite sure that the concerned people won't be very happy seeing the data posted on the web.

If you do not remove the personal data, it would be wise from the moderator to remove the file completely, before it may be abused.
 
Dr.Hesham,
Please tell me who gave you the right to post/publish this document !
This document clearly belongs to AIDA and is like TRUX said include info that is not for everyone.

/Bill Strömberg
AIDA President

(could admin remove this doc asap, please)
 
Billextreme said:
(could admin remove this doc asap, please)
Since it may take a while before a moderator sees this thread, I suggest that we all click the Abuse icon (Report Bad Post) at the post with the file - when there are several abuse reports, the post is removed automatically immediately.
 
Document removed.
Doctor, please consider the ethical, moral and legal ramifications of posting clients' information on a public forum.
Respectfully,
Erik Young
 
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