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Airgun length? Help

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

noobey

Member
Jul 23, 2018
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This part of my search is frustrating me. I know it's dependent on the visibility of the water and the size of my fish.
But there seems to be very little info about air-guns in general. I need some professional expertise.
Visibility is about 11 feet. Freshwater lakes and rivers. Game = small-mouth bass, northern pike and 10lbs carp.

So this was my plan. I thought that I could take a measuring tape and figure out what would feel good in my hand. I'd get the largest model that felt comfortable to wield.
But It seems that the length stated on the store-page is not the over-all length of the gun.
I'm looking at the Predathor guns in particular and I can't even find the lengths on the manufacturers homepage.
What kind of half-assed manufacturer does this? There is almost no information on their page.

I did find this info in a review. "All the lengths indicated by Salvimar are exactly equivalent to the distance of the movement of the piston inside the barrel"


Models : 55/65/75/85/100/115cm
Does anyone know what that would mean, in overall-length? And does anyone know which model I should get, for my freshwater hunts?

55cm = ?
65cm = ?
85cm = ?
100cm = ?
 
To sum it up, i'm looking to get the shortest model for my needs.
I won't be cave-diving. I'm going after small-ish fish, freshwater, 11 feet viz.
 
Yeah, true, it's a bit of a maze in reg. to measurements. On top of it, there's slight deviations between the brands and how they measure their guns, too.
I think for most band gun brands it was the same until just a few years back - just that more people shoot rubber guns, so there was more people asking about these things to the point where more and more brands actually do publish basic info like this.

Anyways, I measure all my guns and take notes, so just interpolate from my 85 and you will get the measurements you are after. Here goes:

NOTES ON MY PREDATHOR VUOTO 85
Gun Length: 924mm (muzzle to upper end of handle), 960mm (muzzle to end of sloped-back grip)
Gun Length loaded: 1103mm (to upper end of handle)
Original spear: 97cm (79cm inside barrel)

------------

E.g. a Predathor Vuoto 65cm should be about 72cm/28.5'' long (w.o. spear) from the muzzle to the end of the handle (not counting the sloped back part of the grip). The 55 model should be 62cm or 24.5''.

Airguns are shot when comparing them to bandguns. So, a 65 will have great power for what you need - question is whether you could go down to 55 even. I think for the power you possibly could. What distances are you shooting at? If it's to the end of your viz, perhaps the 65 is the one...
One point though - airguns tend to be less and less well-balanced the shorter they get and the Predathors are not the lightest airguns out there. You might find you have to add a bit of buoyancy material to it. Some wrap a bit of neoprene around it (Omer and others actually sell these), some just fashion a "floater" themselves out of a hard foam.

BTW, in Salvispeak 'Vuoto' is the name for the vacuum muzzle, so a Predathor Vuoto is a Predathor with the vac muzzle - just keep that in mind as they sell a plain Predathor, too.
 
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As for the power regulator, it seems Salvimar might have changed the line up a little. I am not sure, but I think - and judging from the 2015 catalogue - the Predathor Vuoto used to have a power regulator in all its sizes.
Now, the Predathor Vuoto doesn't have a power regulator in the three smallest sizes (40, 55, 65). The first model with a power regulator is the 75cm.

To get the power regulator in a smaller size than 75cm you need to step down to the Predathor Plus range, but that does not come with vac muzzle. That gun also comes with an 8mm shaft and I don't know the quality of it. Other brands often have crap galvanized 8mm shafts in their cheaper ranges of guns.

BTW, the basic Predathor (non plus, non Vuoto) is the simplest of the three models and does not come with a vac muzzle and no power regulator in any of its sizes.
 
I appreciate your detailed replies, Gecko. You shaved a lot of time from my search. I emailed those hobo's at Salvimar, yesterday. They couldn't reply with a meaningful answer.

What are your thoughts on the 7mm spear that's supplied with your Vuoto? Is it any good, or should I replace it?

My viz is about 11 feet, and I guess id like to be able to shoot at 9 feet, from the tip of my spear to the fish. Is that wishful thinking? lol
So I guess it's between the 55cm & 65cm. Hmmmm.

AS for the power regulator... is that the bolt that let's you drop the power by 50 percent? Or am I thinking of something else?
 
Here are some russians showing off the 55cm models. Video posted 2018. It looks like that 50% power reg is indeed missing. What a shame.


So if my shots are at 9 feet. And i'm hunting freshwater fish, nothing huge... should I get the 55cm model?
 
My only concern with the 55cm model is carp. Apparently, they're a delicacy in many parts of the world, and i'd like to try huntin em.
But carp have meaty scales. Will a 55cm airgun + dry muzzle have any problems penetrating a 10 lbs carp at 8 feet?
 
Personally, I'd go with 65. It's still a very small gun. Should be maneuverable. And if you find it too powerful, you can always let a little air out.

You could measure a piece of wood or broomstick to get a sense of the length but it'll be much smaller than any bandgun of comparable power.

Yes, to nine feet with the 65, I'd say.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I have been PMing a bit with Noobey, but before he pulls the trigger on the stuff in his online shopping basket, I'd love if one or two of you could give your thoughts on the best size for his hunting grounds.

I don't wanna impose my will on anyone but I'd also hate if noobey starts out with the "wrong" gun. Right now, he is leaning towards a 55 which I feel is getting into toy territory. It's spearguns we are talking, not guns, so a 55 wont have much oomph at all.

From a previous post I mentioned that a Salvi 65 should be around 72cm long and I just checked my notes on the Mares MediSten and that gun is 70cm long. I regard that gun as small and very, very maneuverable. I would not really want anything shorter.

@Jegwan, could you chime in? Read the original post about the hunting grounds, they sound a lot like "Danish trout and mullet distances", right? I seem to recall you liked a MediSten for those but that one size up would be OK, too? But shorter than a MediSten...?!
(Noobey, stay tuned, I will email busy Jegwan to get his attention to this thread)
 
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My only concern with the 55cm model is carp. Apparently, they're a delicacy in many parts of the world, and i'd like to try huntin em.
But carp have meaty scales. Will a 55cm airgun + dry muzzle have any problems penetrating a 10 lbs carp at 8 feet?

I've shot parrot fish with a MediSten, they have big scales, too. Sometimes, just shooting from a rearwards angle will help penetration a whole lot - you kinda get under the scales easier that way.
 
Hi,

I would chose the 65 based on what I read. That's about the medi Sten size. I don't recommend shooting at long distance after smaller pelagic fish. Better to improve your sneaking skills :) However; My dry barrel medi Sten shoots more than 3m with an 1.0mm mono line.
The power regulator is in my opinion vey nice to have - but that's because I use the gun at night near rocks and I can get quite close to the fish. You don't need to worry to much about the exact reduction. you wont notice much difference if it 40% or 60%.

Hope this is helpful,
Jégwan
 
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P.S: The 55 is a bit short for my liking. But it's a size used a lot for fresh water hunting in eastern Europe - including carpes. It's nice with a short gun if you dive in low viz or where there is a lot of sea weed. If the fish are free swimming and viz is good a longer gun is preferable.
J.
 
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Thank you fella's

P.S: The 55 is a bit short for my liking. But it's a size used a lot for fresh water hunting in eastern Europe - including carpes. It's nice with a short gun if you dive in low viz or where there is a lot of sea weed. If the fish are free swimming and viz is good a longer gun is preferable.
J.

This is great news, it puts my mind at ease.

The vegetation around here gets really thick halfway through the summer. It's fun swimming through walls of "sea-weed" and lillies, but it snags on everything. So a shorter model is ideal. I think.

I might be making a mistake in getting the 55cm vuoto, but i'm leaning towards it. I guess I'll try it out this summer and report back here with my findings. If it's not strong enough, i'll simply buy the 65cm next year.
 
Thanks so much @Jegwan - I knew you'd had some good info to share.

Jegwan's point about stalking skills is good, too - that might very well also be why you can make the 55 work. You might find that you can get very close to the fish, especially with the vegetation aiding you.

As for rigging it, remember that these small shafts don't carry much momentum, so thick shooting line will rob speed very fast. If you don't wanna buy a crimper perhaps you know some very low profile fishing knots that would work on 1-1.2mm mono? Or let go of the pressure gauge on your shopping list and get a crimper instead? There's a thread somewhere about crimping without a designated crimping tool - perhaps they'll have some good info. As mentioned, most Dyneema tangles very easily. There's some new stuff that is really stiff and can be used for shooting line - I think Benthic sports sells it by the meter (they are in the US). Though for tiny shafts like these, I would personally still get thin mono.

Good luck with it, and do let us know how it all goes.
 
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Crimps can be made with a tool from the dollar store, occasionally. Spectra gets really tangled. I rigged my predathor with mono. I'd leave 1 or 2 cm extra as mono gets "shorter" after you use it for a while.

Vuoto has thinner shaft than regular predathor. It tends to flex more. Near rocks / bottom I'd rather use the non vuoto.

I think regarding tangles in weed there is little difference between the 55 and 65, but extra length and power may be useful for thick skinned fish.

Manometer / gauge is nice to have as the salvimar come at 18/20 bar but I believe they can support up to 30 bar, which may be very hard to load.

Salvimar vintair isalso a good option, but less slick than the predathor. Some dollars less.


Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
 
I think regarding tangles in weed there is little difference between the 55 and 65, but extra length and power may be useful for thick skinned fish.

Right. It's worth the while to consider the shaft diameter. An 8mm shaft is worth considering if you hunt thick skinned fish you can get close to. The shorter the gun gets the less important will the benefits of the 7mm/dry barrel combination be. I prefer 7mm shafts for soft flesh fish like trout and mullet. It's fast like them and it's harder for the fish to tear it out - that's at least my experience.
Best,
Jégwan
 
An 8mm shaft would be great for my rocky bottom fishing grounds. But i'm just worried that the 55cm model would have trouble propelling the heavier shaft. And I read that salvimar uses a standard sized o-ring for it's dry-muzzle. One-size-fits-all. The 8mm is a tight squeeze through that o-ring, which slows it down. And I do want that dry-muzzle.

So i'm thinking if I do go 55cm, i'll need to pair it with 7mm shafts if I want any reasonable speed/performance out of it.




Jegwan's point about stalking skills is good, too - that might very well also be why you can make the 55 work. You might find that you can get very close to the fish, especially with the vegetation aiding you.
.

Just last week, I was able to float over a 7lbs carp in 4 feet of water. I tried to grab his tail. Touched it, but couldn't get a firm hold. Giggled through my snorkel :LOL:
 
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Hmmm.. . in case i'm wrong and I do need the 8mm spears. Will I be able to load one up in the Vuoto? Or is that impossible?
 
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Oops. Did I just assume that carp's gender?
Can an admin please correct my post and give me 50 lashes for my stupidity ?
 
Hmmm.. . in case i'm wrong and I do need the 8mm spears. Will I be able to load one up in the Vuoto? Or is that impossible?

It is indeed one size fits all, but it's not a traditional o-ring. It is more of a cup seal with a quite flexible lip. The seal will probably work for 6.5-8mm shafts or thicker. But the stock shock absorber will have an issue with the thicker shafts.
Check this link for more on the Vuoto shock absorber.
 
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