Any comment's?

[Geoff]

Hi everyone, after many, many, attempt's to stay down at around 15 mtr's for about 30 sec's, (To hunt fish) & failed,(The problem is, I take too long to get to that depth, & also, to surface) I'v thought of this, what if I wore no weight's, & instead, held a weight of about 30 Kg's to take me straight down to the bottom, (15 /16 Mrt's).This weight, would be held in my hand, with nothing to get snagged on me by, & with a rope attached to it for retreivel.This, I think, would get me down very quickly, I would just hold onto it on the bottom, to keep me there, &, when I needed to surface, I would just "let go". Haveing no other weight's on me, I could surface quite quickly, (especialy if I also wore an inflated life jacket). I've seen this type of tecnique used (excepting the jacket) by Japanese women, to collect oyster's. However, I may be missing something, so BEFORE I try it out, I thought I would "Run it by you all", any one out there tried this tecnique?. I can only "breath hold" for around 75 sec's, which is about 80% of my max, I don't want to go longer as I want to be on the safe side & not risk blacking out, I nearly always dive alone. This would be done from a boat. Thank's........Geoff.

 

[Spaniard]

This technique, known as "bombing" has been used for many years in the Med. Sometimes divers use a heavily weighted quick-release belt which is tied to an SMB for post-dive retrieval. If you can clear your ears quickly and have reached that depth before you should be OK. Make sure you keep to your 'bottom' time and leave plenty of surface time for relaxing and breathing between dives.

 

[Geoff]

Hi Spaniard, WOW!!, that was quick!. Thank's,...Geoff.

 

[deep thinker]

Have you tried to adjust the weight on your belt and the way you dive down first? With a evective duck dive you should start kicking only at about 2 to 2.5m some even say 3m or more. Also dive straight down to where you want to be, dont work with an angle, choose a spot and hover over it, duck down tuck your chin and fall, only when you get to the bottom do you start hunting.
The bombing technique sounds like it could be a bit dangerous to you in itself. Id say you need to work on your depth abilities a bit more before giving up on the conventional weightbelt methods. Remember with bombing you can take yourself much farther than you realise at a faster rate so it will be easier to overstay or overshoot your depth. Maybe start a bit shallower at say 10m and work your way down from there.
A diving buddy of mine has a very nice quote that he likes to use...
"We can all get to 60m, but can we all get back?"

 

[Geoff]

Hi deep thinker, & thank's for your advice. The thing is, I'm 53, & although relatively fit, I do find it hard to get down quick enough, these fish know this, they see me comming & laugh at me. I thought that if I could "lie in wait", if only for 30 sec's or so, I could surprise these "Piss taker's" with my ASSO 130!. There are some rearly nice size fish at this depth, (2 to 3 Kg's) I hunt these purely for my table, as the price of sea food, here, in Girona, Spain, is quite high, & I don't know why, but any fish I catch tast's much better than fish I've bought, even straight off of the boat, at the port. The thing I am worried about, useing this tecnique, is if it is dangerous to surface too quickly from this type of depth, I, as a SCUBA diver know it can be leathal when breathing compressed air, but what about when only breath holding?. Regard's..Geoff.

 

[Spaniard]

I'm not the resident freediving physics expert here but no-limits guys go deep on a weighted sled and then zoom back to the surface with a lift bag so there shouldn't be any problems with respect to your scenario; shallow water blackout is an issue but staying well within your limits, depth and time, will prevent major issues; make sure you have someone on the surface to spot for you too!

 

[Geoff]

Ok all, I'll let you know how I get on. It wont be for a bit, (sea too cold) but would love to hear from any one who has tried this. Regard's...Geoff.

 

[dave]

It is really not a very good idea for an inexperienced diver, particularly not with a 30kg weight.
Coming up fast is not a problem on a freedive, but going down fast can be. If you have the weight in one hand, and the gun in the other you will have to be pretty amazing at hands free equalization to cope with the speed of descent from a 30kg weight.
I dont want to sound patronising Geoff, but you always seem to want to find a mechanical solution to issues that just need more time in the water. There are no magic shortcuts or silver bullets in spearfishing, time in the water and gradual progress is everything. If you cant fish at 15m, fish at 5m (or whatever depth you are comfortable at), gradually you will find your bottom times and depths improve. Likewise, if you cant get close enough to the fish, it is better to concentrate on being smoother and more stealthy in the water and learning about fish behaviour, rather than trying to use a huge speargun that you cant load without another Heath Robinson device

cheers
dave
Spearguns by Spearo uk ltd finest supplier of speargun, monofins, speargun and freediving equipment

 

[Geoff]

dave, Ouch!!. But what do they say about "Nessesity being the mother of invention"?. I thought I'd try this tecnique out after seeing some of the best "Free Diver's" in the world, (Japanese oyster hunter's) useing it, it seem's a good, safe way of getting to where I want tbviously, I would need to have a "Free Hand" to clear my ear's, but clipping my "Huge Gun" to my safty vest would facilitate that. I will never stop looking for better ways to do thing's, in any aspect of my life, & will alway's share my idea's with people, even though I may be ridiculed. Incidentaly, my "Heath Robinson" device you referd to, has enabled at least one guy to carry on doing what he love's, he lost his strengh in his arm's after an operation, but useing my "Loading device" was able to carry on hunting. If any one wonder's what this is, just go to my history & look it up. dave, I accept your comment's in the spirit of what I hope you meant. Regard's...Geoff. PS. Any spullink mesteck's are't my fault, my spullcecker isn't werking.

 

[spaghetti]

Adding another problem to the ones mentioned by Dave, I guess a 30 kilograms ballast would pull you down so fast that you will scare the fish. (And the ballast itself is likely to make noise when touching the bottom)
One of the golden rules of spearfishing is: act like a fish. And fish don't swim fast, unless they're escaping or attacking: in any case, a "creature" moving fast is a danger signal for them, a signal that something to be wary about is going on.
However, if you feel the need to use some releasing weight technique, you could simply go classic.
A weight belt with, to say, some 8 kilograms (depending to you body weight and suit thickness) will pull you down pretty fast after just a few finstrokes in the first 2-3 meters. If the belt is tied or clipped to your float line, you can release it before ascending (gaining a shorter ascent time) and easlily retrieve it by pulling the rope.
This is the classic, popular and widely field-tested technique for hunting deep. Down with belt, release, ascend.
Even inside your 10/12 meters SAFE range it will help a bit.

 

[Geoff]

Hi Spaghetti, This is the reason I posted this idea, to get people's feedback, & other idea's. This site is the only one I use, I've found that it's member's are alway's helpfull, &, whether their comment's are good or bad, the're alway's constructive.Thank's to you all.

 

[azapa]

HI Geoff. As a newbie I can say that 15m was impossible for me a year ago. I could hunt at about 8 to 10M fine, but for example, 12M would seem impossible, like "get me outa here" rather than hanging around hunting. I can honestly say, to add to Spago a Dave's answer, that by diving 3 to 6 times a month for a year, and you'll be mooching around at 15M without trouble. The weighting idea is very bad, for many reasons, is very advanced, and "cheating" a little I feel. Go the hard way: practice.. best of luck, and while training hard, it'll be good to have a buddy nearby, otherwise, stay well within what you find easy...

 

[spaghetti]

Hi Spaghetti, This is the reason I posted this idea, to get people's feedback, & other idea's. This site is the only one I use, I've found that it's member's are alway's helpfull, &, whether their comment's are good or bad, the're alway's constructive.Thank's to you all.

Sure, mate, and nobody's teaching lessons or playing "Mister Knowitall". It's just our experience being mutually shared.
Have you ever tried the bomb diving thecnique? In my country we call it pesca in caduta ("falling down hunting").
You shoot your fish while you're still "falling" head down. It's good if the water is clear and the fish is big enough not to require a pin-point accurate shot, like grouper caught outside of their holes for example, or dentex as well.
You can combine this technique to the belt releasing technique, while staying within your SAFE range of 10/12 meters.
The important: don't fall directly on the vertical of the fish: get down pretty distant from him, with an oblique trajectory, than sweetly turn towards him and shoot soon as it's in range.
You can gain a lot of time hunting this way, even if shots will hardly be as accurate as shooting from a more stable position.

 

[Marwan]

Geoff, what kind of fins are you using? maybe with different fins you can get down faster..i notice this as a difference between lastic and carbon fins for example...but please note im NOT encouraging you to make sudden increases in your depth..you need to progress very gradually thats the safe way..all im saying is that the right choice of fins could make some difference as you gradually progress and in turn give you some more time on the bottom for the hunt...
Good Luck

 

[spaghetti]

...but please note im NOT encouraging you to make sudden increases in your depth..you need to progress very gradually thats the safe way..
Good Luck

Same as he said. The tips I gave are to be intended for use within your usual comfortable depth.

 

[foxfish]

Geoff, some of your ideas are a bit radical :hmm but you are one of db's characters that get people posting & I think you are great to have around
Just make sure you post you ideas before trying them out & then you will have the opportunity to hear our joint opinions - stay safe Geoff.

 

[Geoff]

Hi all,

azapa, I can only dive from May- Sept, So cant get that much practice, & nearly alway's dive alone.

spagetti, Yes, I've tried that, & it work's.

Marwan, Yes, you're right, I know my "Fin's" are "Too Short". I'd love to use the long Carbon one's. Adrian, a member, (Hi Adrian) has a pair, we went diveing together once, he got down quick & effortlessly with them, but at around 200 € the're out of my range.....Geoff.

 

[Scorp]

Hi Geoff,

I think the idea of the mobile weight itself is not bad, but the way you intend to do it seems a bit excessive to me and also not really effective to the purpose you want to use it for.
First, 30kg is too heavy for shure. Who is supposed to pull that up again? You yourself? That this is impossible if you just lay on the surface, and its even a big effort if done from a boat. And not big fun if you have to get back on to the boat after each dive to pull your ass off :martialBesides, you don't need so much weight anyway. Depending on the thickness of your wetsuit, 5 - 7 kg should be really enough. I would also leave some kilos on my weightbelt to stay comfortably on the ground when waiting for the fish.

Second point - the fish. As already said by the others, a heavy weight bumping into the ground scares all the fish away, they would check you out from safe distance and laugh at you more than ever :t. So, the mobile weight should either be connected to the buoy (or boat) with a rope shorter then the depht you want to go and consequently be released before you touch the ground, or be set down very gently on the ground in order to avoid making noises - and that's just possible if you use a weight much smaller than 30 kg.

Me personally I never use mobile weight when spearing. It gives me that sense of dependency and "artificially" increased or "altered" performance which is exactly what I don't want when freediving. The other approach - more training, shallower diving and refining of your hunting technique - is definitely the way I would chose. But that's just me, of course. I guess this idea with a mobile weight is pretty firm in your head and you are gonna try it out anyway. So just do it, but use much less weight and go for a system which is easily managable and appropriate for your goal.

And concerning good fins: they really don't have to be made of carbon and cost you more than 200 E! For 15m of depht (and even more), a good plastic fin like the cressi 3000 LD or equivalent is more than sufficient and not even half the price. And for you, living in Spain, it should be easy to get them.

Just my 2 cents,

cheers,

Ivo

 

[Geoff]

Hi Scorp, Prehap's I did go a bit strong with the weight, maybe only 10 Kg's or so, would be enough. I'll look up the Cressi's you mentioned, thank's for your input, & great value @ only "2 cent's"...... Geoff.