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Any Suunto D4 reviews to report?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

ADR

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2004
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There must be some demo models out there being used by freedivers that someone can hopefully report on?
 
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Andy,

We've just had 5 units (pre-production and beta) down at the SETT for instructors and students to use. I'm writing a review as we speak but it won't be out for a few weeks as it's a joint review between Sport Diver UK and DB covering Free and Scuba sides.

I'll pop some details in here later but full review will come out in a few weeks.

Till then here's a picture of it in use.
 

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Awesome Stephan, thanks for the quick response and update. I hope you give the 5 units a really hard time to shake out any D3 type issues. Having had 4 D3s a Mosquito and finally an F1, I'm really hoping the D4 is everything it is reported to be for the sake of freedivers and Suunto. I'm really hoping they will "nail it" with this product.

Is the SETT tank salt or chlorine as I have only experienced problems with D3s with heavy use (duration and depth) in salt water? (regardless of immediate TLC with freshwater cleaning after each dive)
 
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That's a shame Stephan - we were diving 30m in 8 degree water on the weekend, could have given a D4 a good going over!
 
The D4 is due for release in 2 weeks (beginning of Feb).

Don't worry - the D4's got a good 7 hours of water time of the weekend with multiple dives to various depths to 30m so got a very good workout.

The were pre-production and beta units so there were a couple of bugs on some of the units when testing but I must stress only a couple of the very early units.

The computer isn't just a freediving computer - it's designed to cater for both the freediving and scuba markets. The scuba side of things caters for air/nitrox deco diving.

Freediving wise it has a number of depth and time alarms including a surface interval alarm which was generally very well received by all.
 
In fact I'm a scuba diver but I posted the info on this forum due to the shared interest for the D4.

Here are the differences found in the user's manual between the D6 and D4:
- Plastic body on D4
- No electronic compass (D6 only)
- Weight : 85g/3.0 oz (D6: 113g/3.98 oz)
- Oxygen %: 21-50% (21-99% on D6)
- Oxygen partial pressure display: 0.5-1.6 bar (0.2-3 bar on D6)
- Recording interval: new free dive mode (default 1 second, adjustable 1, 2, 5s)
- Sampling rate : 3 times a second but the D4 only stores once a second to the log (depending of the recording interval). It chooses the deepest sample when it stores to the log.
- Higher memory capacity : 80 hours of diving (D6: 36 hours), with 20 second recording interval d'intervale) contre 36 heures
- Battery life is shorter on D4 : 0 dives/y –> 2 years, 100 dives/year –>1,5 years, 300 dives/year –>1 year (D6: 0 dives/y - 3 years, 100 dives/year – 2 years, 300 dives/year – 1.5 years)

Besides the above differences, other technical specifications are pretty much the same between D4 and D6.

Alphazo
 
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Suunto have made a sensible decision here - they have built a good freediving facility into a scuba computer. Building just a computer for the freediving market would mean reducing potential target market by a significant percentage.

The similarities in functionality to the D6 isn't by chance - the D6 is an excellent Scuba computer and provided an excellent starting point.

What was pleasing to see was the interest Suunto took in wanting to understand how Freediver use the computer and feed that back into the R&D process. Ultimately the needs of a freediver are significantly less than that of a Scuba diver but in my view combining both a freediving and scuba function into one unit will make the whole package much more attractive to the wider diving market.

As a FYI it's going to be priced (RRP) at 295 (GBP) for the UK market. Can't remember the USD price but I think it's around the 600 USD mark.
 
Suunto have made a sensible decision here ... As a FYI it's going to be priced (RRP) at 295 (GBP) for the UK market. Can't remember the USD price but I think it's around the 600 USD mark.
Of course, freedivers and spearos can only rejoice, given the fact that D4 costs twice as much as D3. I, for one, am going to look for non-Suunto alternatives and the few Russian spearos who have responded to my post on tetis.ru think the same way, some in expressing their discontent in much stronger language. I don't know whether Suunto would broaden its clientile base by that move in the West, but I am sure it is gonna lose quite a few customers in Russia/FSU.
 
I can understand - that is the only real grumbling i've heard is the cost. However you have to bear in mind that you're buying a computer not just an advanced depth timer.

There is a market out there for a cheap freedive only style computer that has a number of alarms but no computer or logging functionality.

Time will tell about the D4 but I suspect that it will sell well due to it's combined scuba/free functionality and good looks.
 
I did bear in mind that I was buying a freediving computer when I dolled out 300 euros for my Suunto D3 and I don't see why guys like me would pay twice as much for features in D4 that I have no use for because spearfishing with scuba is illegal in Russia and because I don't like that anyway and because I don't plan to be scuba diving either.
PS Also, I still can't quite believe that D4 looks as cheap as D3 - the same plastic that might be functional, but that looks like my high school Soviet electronic watch - so much for the common wisdom that a good product should also look good. Nor can I believe that these instruments are not compatible with Macintosh.
 
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Hyeparis: Interesting comments. One question - Have you seen the D4 properly or just seen pictures?

To Everyone Else: Any comments on pricing or functionality?
 
You're not just paying for the materials either (plastic, componentry, glass etc), you're paying for a lot of R&D, specialised equipment to develop each part (plastic moulding machines, moulds, production runs for making parts - it costs a lot for example to make widget A in a D4 then to reset the machines to make Widget B in a Mosquito), salaries, wages, useful life of assets, cost of finance, sales team, marketing team, business analysts to decide whether they should even bother making a D4 or if it's a loss making design, software experts to design the computer aspects... the list goes on and on which is why the cheapest looking watch can cost a small fortune.

Of course they have to add their own margin on to make it profitable as well, and they have to decide how many will be sold, how much it costs to make that many and therefore what price they can set to achieve their margin.

The best way to get a cheap Suunto would be to work for Suunto. Second best option is to wait and get one second hand. £300 is a bit hard for me to justify at the moment when I already have 2 working D3's, but they might come down in price a bit later down the track, particularly if something supercedes the D4.

Cheers,
Ben
 
Didn't see the last 2 posts before posting. Just to reiterate my mention of plastic moulding, I said above that it costs a lot of money (and time) to reset moulding machines to produce different products. The D3 and Mosquito have an identical design, so i'm guessing this is an example of keeping the same design between products to reduce costs.

Changing designs all the time and making different products that don't share any parts is an easy way to put you out of business.
 
No, I have not seen D4 yet, but I have read it is made of plastic.
And, yes, I do know that the price does include not only the cost of components, but other costs. It is kind of obvious, isn't it?
But I still think that any company that wants to have a loyal clientile should not double the price of a product even it adds extra features.
(How many of potential clients would find these features redundant and not worth paying 50 percent more for is a question that I have an answer for. )
I cannot remember paying twice as much for the next Mac laptop or a Toyota car or any product for that matter.
 
the price does include not only the cost of components, but other costs. It is kind of obvious, isn't it?
Not to everyone, and particularly not the amount of money that can be dumped into things like Marketing and R&D. Mining companies are a great example, they will sink tens of millions into investigating areas to mine, before deciding it's not worth their while and moving on.

But at this stage of the game there isn't a massive market for freediving watches, and it's probably a small part of Suunto's business anyway so without much competition they can charge what they want.

And from memory when I looked at buying one in Australia a few years ago, the retail price wasn't that far away from what the US price is at the moment. Prices will typically go down in time, hopefully sooner than later!
 
To Everyone Else: Any comments on pricing or functionality?

If I compare the D4 (450 Euro) and the Aeris Manta (300 Euro) - then that's a difference in price.

OK, the log at the D4 ist better then the one of the Manta. But what else?

Another question is the price of the cable and the software to connect the D4 with your PC. For the Manta that's about 80 Euro!!:headI hope that the price for the Suunto cable (or compatible) will be cheaper.
 
2 BennyB
I am sorry, but I don't really understand what do you mean by "not to everyone"
What I said was that it is kind of a truism, that -the price includes not just the cost of components, but also other costs. The cost of doing a feasibility study o is also among these costs.
"so without much competition they can charge what they want." - if that is the case than Finland's and other countries' anti-monopoly services should investigate Suunto for that.
 
2 BennyB
I am sorry, but I don't really understand what do you mean by "not to everyone"

I meant that not everyone would understand that the cost of a watch is not just what they can see (the cost of plastic, electronic componentry etc) but includes all the other stuff we mentioned, which would make them think that the watch would be hugely overpriced.

"so without much competition they can charge what they want." - if that is the case than Finland's and other countries' anti-monopoly services should investigate Suunto for that.

They can charge whatever they want, it's their business and they're entitled to do whatever they need to (legally) to stay in business. It all comes down to market supply and demand, if they increase the price enough the market will decide there is an alternative (ie. not having a dive watch) so who has lost out then, the consumer or Suunto?

If someone thinks it's price fixing then they can contact the relevant anti-competition body but at the end of it all we're talking about a dive watch, not an internet provider or mobile phone company or supermarket so i'd be amazed if they took it up. Those sorts of organisations are geared at price fixing that affects the majority people, not just a few irate divers.

I understand your point but there is always an alternative - you don't have to buy it. Suunto want to make money so if no-one buys it they'll drop the price.

Cheers,
Ben
 
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