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Any Suunto D4 reviews to report?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
What I meant by questioning the following "so without much competition they can charge what they want" is that if there is no competition, than it means that a market regulator needs to step in to control the pricing . Monopolies, duopolies, etc need to be regulated. Or, another way of addressing that problem is to stimulate competition. Or so does a basic course on markets and markets failure say.
 
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hyeparis said:
Monopolies need to be regulated - the most common way is thru controlling their costs..
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I think Moscow has some history with that haha!
I agree that the cost is somewhat prohibitive, no matter Suunto's justification. I haven't used an instrument for the last 2 years since my last Suunto died on me, but I'm looking for a new one. I'll look hard for one that is half the cost of the D4 if there is such a thing!
Cheers,
Erik
 
i have mentioned this before but my lost cost solution was to buy a used Mosquito on ebay. There are lots around (retiring divers) and cost about US$250 with cable. Hard to beat. sampling 2 seconds only drawback (for me). D4 looks great, I'll wait 3 years for it to come to used market though. Is it really plastic? looks metal bodied to me. (ie. good lookin)
 
alphazo said:
- Recording interval: new free dive mode (default 1 second, adjustable 1, 2, 5s)
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What happened to the .33s recording interval of the D4? This would be its biggest selling point as far as I'm concerned.
 
At first glance it appears that Suunto learned marketing from the best. Develop a new product and test the market. If it sells, change as little as possible, re-number it and double the price. If however, they've fixed the reliability issue and it lasts five years, it will be cheaper in the long run. Using a warm, fresh water, shallow testing ground doesn't look too good though.
If the costs are similar to other electronic products, making the first one costs millions but the last one costs a few dollars. I remember one of the best handi-talkies ever made sold for $250 (5-600 in todays money) and after they stopped production someone kept the assembly line running for another thousand or so. They appeared on the 'grey' market for $50. It's probably too late to get one last run of the D3 just like it's probably too late to buy Apple stock.
Speaking of Apple, Hyeparis it is so easy to hook a Mac up to the D3 that I figured it out with some help from the Deeper Blue connection. Suunto cable, $30 program and $30 twixty.
 
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Mullins said:
What happened to the .33s recording interval of the D4? This would be its biggest selling point as far as I'm concerned.
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The D4 samples 3 times a second but only stores once a second to the log. It chooses the deepest sample to when it stores to the log.
 
I was also lucky enough to try the D4 in the set tank at the weekend and loved it...

Could not say a word against it...took it to 30 and the surface int realy helped.

Hi Stephan
 
Bill said:
Using a warm, fresh water, shallow testing ground doesn't look too good though.
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Bill - I just want to get the record straight here. The unit has gone through extensive testing and these are pre-production units that have been sent out to various magazines (including DB) to test for upcoming reviews. They are not using DB as a primary testing platform for the product.

However - they have found it insightful as to how Freedivers put the unit through it's paces. We only had the units for 2 days of testing and it happened to coincide with a SETT weekend course we were running. Our partner in the review (Sport Diver) tested a unit in Canada over Xmas and is now in the Caribbean with it.

As for pricing - what I can say is that the freediving market is tiny compared to the scuba market. In our view (i.e. that of the freediving world) people are worried about features and cost for those features. In the business world they are interested in shifting as many units as possible and making a computer that has a wide appeal. I believe they have done that with the D4 as it caters for both Scuba and Freediving and as our (DB) research has shown, the majority of people who freedive also do some form of Scuba so this should appeal to them.

The opportunity here is to help drive product R&D forward. You can bet your bottom dollar that Suunto are watching with interest the reaction to the D4 and the feedback of this community will be critical in helping to shape the future of computers for freediving.
 
given that the code is already written it is a shame that Suunto did not include the freediving functionality in the D6 or D9 as I think they look fantastic and would buy one tomorrow if I could have .33sec sampling on freedive mode on a D9/D6.


If Suunto is listening what about this for an idea:

Release the hardware (basic watch) at a given base price and then allow the users to purchase the unlock keys online for the particular functions they want enabled on the unit. It would have to reduce costs and increase product flexibility in the market for Suunto and provide huge choices for the consumer.

I would in this way buy the D9 and buy the freediving unlock code now and then probably the air diving unlock code on my next dive holiday and then later maybe purchase the multi gas options. Ongoing revenue stream from me on a base piece of kit.......just an idea
 
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The problems with D3-
1) I have to buy unwanted/unnecessary scuba functions.
2) Unreliable, prone to breakdowns.
3) Cheap plastic face scratches easily and face protector gets sand under and scratches even worse.
4)Has the appearance of a poundshop watch.
5)Battery changing is expensive if the shop does it and fiddly/risky if you do it yourself.
Having said all that it has been very useful, Suuntos aftersales service has been second to none and they have stood by their guarantees.
It would be interesting to see how many of the above issues have been corrected in the D4 but I won't be buying one as it costs well over my basic weeks wage and there are cheaper alternatives.
 
Could they have made a separate version with the scuba chips omitted?
 
Bill said:
Speaking of Apple, Hyeparis it is so easy to hook a Mac up to the D3 that I figured it out with some help from the Deeper Blue connection. Suunto cable, $30 program and $30 twixty.
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I got an old cable with mine - so I would have to doll out a 100 usd for the USB cable or order an adaptor that costs about 40 or so from U.S. plus shipping plus the program - so it is NOT that cheap and is a hassle.
I just cannot see why Suunto would not factor in Mac users, whose numbers are growing - so much for their ability to project
 
sunfish said:
The problems with D3-
1) I have to buy unwanted/unnecessary scuba functions.
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There are some scuba functions on D3? I thought this watch is pure freediving instrument without any scuba functions.

Anyway, IMHO, I think that all watches with both scuba and freediving modes are thought to be used more by scuba divers with interest in freediving than opposite.
 
I'm a happy D3 user, and not planning to go below a 100m soon. Have replaced the battery twice myself, and though one nob is now starting to become less responsive it still works sufficiently after 4 years of usage.
A more sturdy freedive watch would be nice, though at the moment my monthly salary is way lower than the target price. So Suunto can ignore me, one of those barely scraping by freedivers who are BAD consumers because they rather be out there living than work and produce 24/7.

Perhabs I become more attracted to Jaque's philosophy, "don't bring your fancy watches and other trinkets, because you won't need them down there" when Umberto came over to learn.

Sure there are instances where it's usefull, like the depth alarm.

Perhabs Suunto expects a major increase in the area of money inflation?
Or are they aiming twards a smaller elitest group of divers?
Maybe a good idea to wait for the D3's to be faced out and being sold for big discounts?
 
I have noticed in PFI's latest newsletter that they are recommending to "buy 'em while they last" on the D3's. Makes me think that they may even go UP in price as they are phased out.

I too think they are reliable, many probs are solved with a bat change. Hopefully other manufacturers will position watches into the niche that Suunto is leaving, sadly, behind. Mares, Cressi etc.

Regarding alarms, I have heard my down time alarm once in a years diving despite exceeding it most weekends. They are useless for me.
 
Anyone whinging about the cost with a freedive only perspective is missing the point i think. The D4 is a scuba computer with a freedive function....as was the Mosquito. The D3 equivalent is gone from the Suunto range and that I'm sure is simple market economics.
 
2 Andy.
I e-mailed Suunto in November about D4, asking them "if D4 is replacing any particular model" and their response to me was "The D4 (i)s replacing the Mosquito and D3 in the new year."
Also, if they had not cared about preventing a drop in the number of freedivers/spearos who don't use scuba in their clientile, they would not have bothered to perfect the discretion of depth measurment in the new model.
So maybe we have a case here when a producer which has no strong competition in that sector decides to replace a cheaper model with a more expensive one, adding extra features. If that is the case, than it is the case when markets fail and a market regulator might have to step in. I am sure you can read it up in any economic course on "market and market failure."
PS And what does the word "whinging" mean in this context, may I ask? I am not a native speaker of the English, so I'd like to know.
 
According my understanding - you personally (or we) should act as market regulators. It means / You like it? Buy it. You don't? Leave it.
Still, I understand your dissapointment. But Suunto can do what they want and I think it's OK.
 
The key thing there is they are saying two devices are being replaced - the Mosquito and D3. It looks more like the D4 is a direct replacement for the Mosquito (which had Scuba and Free functions). I don't know, but suspect, that the D3 is being phased out as the sales for a pure Freediving computer weren't strong enough to warrant a computer product in it's own right.

You need to look at this in perspective - how big is the freediving market compared to the scuba market and how many computers get sold in each.

I completely understand your frustrations especially as the pricing of the computer is more in line with a scuba computer than a freediving one which does price it out of the range of some freedivers.
I truly don't believe a market regulator is needed in this context.

The Freediving market is still embryonic and, whilst it is growing rapidly and is recognised as a potential way of getting new people into diving in general, we need to recognise that any business (computer manufacturer or not) will try to maximise revenue and get rid of unprofitable lines of product, sometimes by merging their features into a new or existing line of products.

We haven't "lost" any features by replacing the Mosquito and D3 - we have gained a more advanced computer that also caters for the Scuba market.
 
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