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apnea nutrition
- Thread startercebaztian
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Hard to tell, but seeing the author Tomas Schiffer works at the Karolinska Institute, Stockholm University, where there are also several other very important researchers in the field of freediving physiology, I'd tell he has good prepositions for it. And as his landsman you may be able to get some personal opinions better than us.
However, it is definitely interesting reading, although there is not yet too much information available. I've added the documents to the Freediving Media Base. Together with some other documents on nutrition, they are available here: nutrition @ APNEA.cz
Good reading indeed, and I personally also agree with the note on the website telling "Never exaggerate the intake of supplements, especially not under a long time since that can lead to a disturbed homeostasis with unknown side effects!". It also does not mean that what is good for your apnea performance is good for your health too.
I found quite interesting also the document about dairy products and mucus (http://www.apneanutrition.com/mucus.pdf), where they did not manage to find any proof of negative effect of dairy products on the mucus build-up, which is otherwise mostly accepted as fact in freediving documents, books and courses. Good to know. Personally, I never observed any difference in mucus build-up with and without dairy products either.
I found quite interesting also the document about dairy products and mucus (http://www.apneanutrition.com/mucus.pdf), where they did not manage to find any proof of negative effect of dairy products on the mucus build-up, which is otherwise mostly accepted as fact in freediving documents, books and courses. Good to know. Personally, I never observed any difference in mucus build-up with and without dairy products either.
I have not read through the site yet, but do plan to. On the Mucus build up, I think that is different for every person. (Correct me if I'm wrong, since that is why I'm posting my experience) I've had a lot of mucus build up for as long as I can remember and I sort of learned to deal with it. It always bothered me though.
When I went to Florida in April my sinuses cleared up. I thought it was the weather and saltwater. Once I got home it returned. I realized that I stopped eating cereal and drinking milk while I was in Florida and started again when I got home. I have since stopped drinking milk and only have cheese on limited items and my sinuses have cleared tremendously. I've heard that it has something to do with MSG, but I don't know for sure. I assume I am somewhat Lactose intolerant.
For me, I've found cutting the dairy intake down has helped.
When I went to Florida in April my sinuses cleared up. I thought it was the weather and saltwater. Once I got home it returned. I realized that I stopped eating cereal and drinking milk while I was in Florida and started again when I got home. I have since stopped drinking milk and only have cheese on limited items and my sinuses have cleared tremendously. I've heard that it has something to do with MSG, but I don't know for sure. I assume I am somewhat Lactose intolerant.
For me, I've found cutting the dairy intake down has helped.
There are indeed great differences among people as for lactose tolerance goes, but the experiments described in the document failed to prove any influence of dairy products on mucus build-up even at people who were convinced of the negative effect of milk. They used double blind test with real (lactic) and placebo (lactose-free) beverages.
The document is quite short, so I recommend reading it. The experiments are then described in studies linked at the bottom of the page.
That bit seems to be talking about the instant reaction to the milk. I get that feeling, but it is temporary and does not bother me.
The effects I feel build up if I have a glass of milk for say, 2 or 3 days in a row, then my sinuses fill up non stop. I can blow my nose and clear it completely and 5 minutes later do it again. I know weather and allergies can also play a roll as well. I've been *testing* my bodies reaction over the past couple of months.
That said, I have not had issues with clearing, even when I have the mucus buildup. Maybe now I can work on hands free clearing
(Again, this is my own non-scientific findings and for discussion)
The effects I feel build up if I have a glass of milk for say, 2 or 3 days in a row, then my sinuses fill up non stop. I can blow my nose and clear it completely and 5 minutes later do it again. I know weather and allergies can also play a roll as well. I've been *testing* my bodies reaction over the past couple of months.
That said, I have not had issues with clearing, even when I have the mucus buildup. Maybe now I can work on hands free clearing
(Again, this is my own non-scientific findings and for discussion)
I have had a lot of nasal/sinus congestion problems all my life and eating/avoiding dairy products does not make the slightest difference. Of course, everyone is different and for some people it seems to work, but give it a fair trial and if it does not have any noticeable effect for you, there is no point in avoiding dairy products.
Same goes for wheat/cereal products and meat.
Same goes for wheat/cereal products and meat.
At least I like the approach, waiting for more stuff. I like the general advice, many "internet nutritionists" seem to miss that point completely.
About the milk thing - that's basically word to word what I got from another researcher (the ph.d type, not the internet forum kind). Personally I don't feel a difference - I tried going without milk for about 2 months and pretty much had the same results and sensations as with. I'm not discarding the possibility though. Anyway, what ever your nutritional "thing" is, it's not to be underestimated. Even if there's no proven value, the psychological effects can still be considerable.
For example, I've never observed any significant performance difference if I drink coffee or not. On the contrary, when I'm "on coffee" and skip the morning cup, my performances falter. But during intensive preparation I still cut it out, not as much for the physiological effect, but because that sort of uncompromising attitude helps me maintain a similar "training mindset" through out that period. If I start to make compromises in diet, I pretty much start make them in training also and then the whole thing crumbles and folds.
I'll be very interested in what he has to say about creatine as I'm pretty convinced it makes reasonable difference in cw, a little in dyn and non existent in STA. Bust my myths and save me some money So far that's pretty much the only supplement I'm putting my money on (tried quite a few).
About the milk thing - that's basically word to word what I got from another researcher (the ph.d type, not the internet forum kind). Personally I don't feel a difference - I tried going without milk for about 2 months and pretty much had the same results and sensations as with. I'm not discarding the possibility though. Anyway, what ever your nutritional "thing" is, it's not to be underestimated. Even if there's no proven value, the psychological effects can still be considerable.
For example, I've never observed any significant performance difference if I drink coffee or not. On the contrary, when I'm "on coffee" and skip the morning cup, my performances falter. But during intensive preparation I still cut it out, not as much for the physiological effect, but because that sort of uncompromising attitude helps me maintain a similar "training mindset" through out that period. If I start to make compromises in diet, I pretty much start make them in training also and then the whole thing crumbles and folds.
I'll be very interested in what he has to say about creatine as I'm pretty convinced it makes reasonable difference in cw, a little in dyn and non existent in STA. Bust my myths and save me some money
So far that's pretty much the only supplement I'm putting my money on (tried quite a few).
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Hi there trux ..
I've read the article sometime a go, and reread it now, I might be reading it wrong but it is saying that : " The review showed that people who believe that milk increases mucus formation are more likely to report changes in sensory perceptions related to mucus after drinking milk than those who don't hold the same belief"
Not only this, but it says also:" In a double trial, symptoms of increased mucus formation were detected by healthy adults after consumption of both cow's milk and a non-milk beverage with similar sensory properities". then the article comes back to the believers and say:" Furthermore, persons who were convinced of mucus formation due to milk consumption showed more respiratory symptoms".
For me, I read it like that:
1. Milk consumption introduce symptoms of increased mucus formation in the respiratory system and sinuses, YES the non-milk beverage the study used had the same effect as well, so what !
2. Those who believed in the "milk is a mucus producer" are more likely to report changes in sensory perception related to mucus after drinking milk, and actually showed more respiratory symptoms.
Unless you guys read the articles listed in the Refernce List (the actual experiments) and getting your information right from there, which I didn't do yet.
Oh yes! .. except if the secret is all in the word "Symptoms" .. .. as I see, they didn't use the word "Signs" at all in the article, does that mean the researchers didn't actually see any signs of increased mucus production nor signs of congestions ? so it is all about feelings that a person gets when saliva is mixed with the milk (and therfor non-milk that's similar to milk in its properities).
.. as I see, they didn't use the word "Signs" at all in the article, does that mean the researchers didn't actually see any signs of increased mucus production nor signs of congestions ? so it is all about feelings that a person gets when saliva is mixed with the milk (and therfor non-milk that's similar to milk in its properities).
Well, it can be also interpreted so that the symptoms at the believers are psychosomatic and that they report them simply because they are persuaded about the effects. And since the study failed to detect any increased mucus secretion, and the same symptoms were reported at both groups (the one consuming real milk, and the other getting just placebo without lactose), it indeed sounds like a very probable conclusion.
Personally I found a big difference in giving up cow's milk products and also wheat, and also reducing my gluten intake in general.
I went on a boat diving for the weekend once and they served three types of cheese at breakfast which I pounced on (after being good for ages) and it ruined two days of diving, i was totally congested in the ears and throat..
I went on a boat diving for the weekend once and they served three types of cheese at breakfast which I pounced on (after being good for ages) and it ruined two days of diving, i was totally congested in the ears and throat..
Yes, this is exactly what was the subject of the research. As writen above, they failed to prove any difference between the two control groups (one consuming milk, the other consuming placebo). Of course, it does not necessarily mean that dairy products have no impact at all, but the effect may be psychosomatic, or there may be other circumstances that were not studied in this specific research project.
I've never eaten placebo, can you have it on cereal instead of milk?
Or on toast instead of cheese?
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Sure, placebo is a "simulator", it can replace anything. You can even have placebo sex if you wish.
Ha ha. No thanx trux, i'm taken, but thanks for the offer.
I am aware of the placebo effect, over the years i suppose there has been loads of things 'i must do' or 'must eat' or 'must drink' before diving or it 'would be impossible for me to do any good'. Most of them only helped me feel better and when they were removed didn't make the dive any worse.
I think routines and things that psychologically make you feel like you can do well on the day can improve depth and distance at the time so i suppose even placebos have their uses. Just don't think negatively about them though.
Milk and dairy doesn't seem to make me congested luckily.
I am aware of the placebo effect, over the years i suppose there has been loads of things 'i must do' or 'must eat' or 'must drink' before diving or it 'would be impossible for me to do any good'. Most of them only helped me feel better and when they were removed didn't make the dive any worse.
I think routines and things that psychologically make you feel like you can do well on the day can improve depth and distance at the time so i suppose even placebos have their uses. Just don't think negatively about them though.
Milk and dairy doesn't seem to make me congested luckily.
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It wouldn't need to be the real Trux, it could an exact replica. Or perhaps a double-blind test to see which performed better?
Yes, that's exactly my opinion on placebo. Homeopathy, from scientific (physical/chemical) point of view should not work, and is nothing else than placebo, but in our family these placebo medicaments take care of most medical problems quite efficiently. Nobody tells placebo does not work. Quite oppositely. As I wrote, the above mentioned study failed to prove any physiological impact of dairy products consumption on mucus build-up. In no way I wrote that it said placebo did not work. The exact contrary is true - the placebo worked so well, that it was impossible to prove the impact of the real lactose.
The conclusion is that if you are persuaded that you get congested after consuming milk, you may well be even if it is physiologically not true at all, and even if you drink placebo instead of milk. It means, if you believe in the bad impact of milk, you better avoid it. On the other hand, if you never thought about limiting the consumption of dairy products before diving, you can quietly go on ignoring advises to avoid dairy products, and consume them as much as you like - and more than likely you won't have any problems.
The conclusion is that if you are persuaded that you get congested after consuming milk, you may well be even if it is physiologically not true at all, and even if you drink placebo instead of milk. It means, if you believe in the bad impact of milk, you better avoid it. On the other hand, if you never thought about limiting the consumption of dairy products before diving, you can quietly go on ignoring advises to avoid dairy products, and consume them as much as you like - and more than likely you won't have any problems.