Apnea techniques?

[lawstraljan16]

Hi. I've recently taken up spearfishing more seriously and have become incredibly addicted. But my breathe holding isn't good enough for the fish I target as 1. They are very skiddish and 2. Depth for them is between 10-15m.

So I need to improve on my breathe. I sometimes manage about 1minute underwater but only for a few dives and then my breathe hardly lasts 30seconds. But most of the time it's only about 30 seconds.

I would like to try apnea to improve on that and I've been looking on the net but I'm not convinced by videos and would rather get advice from fellow divers personally, and taking an apnea course is too expensive for my taste.

Could anyone help and give me some advice on what to do, how to do it and where to do it (preferably at home). Do I need to be in the water for apnea.

PS: Will it take forever for me to start seeing a difference?

Thanks!


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[Apneaddict]

Use a dive float to rest up on between dives. Most spearfishermen over weight themselves so they sink on the bottom.

The less weight you can use, the better.

This means that they have to continually fin while on the surface to stay afloat. This raises the heart rate an co2 levels.

Just lie motionless at the surface while resting on a float (search for Banks Board for a really cool piece of kit) with slow breathing until your heart rate is slowed for the next dive.

Also - practice CO2 tables at home when you're not diving - about 3x per week.

With supervision / a buddy, you can practice your bottom time in a pool.

Get VERY comfortable underwater and moving slowly. No substitute for underwater time. Play underwater hockey or anything else to get you water time.

Always spear with a safety / buddy. A great policy is to spear with 1 gun for 2 divers. This ensures an attentive buddy.



All the best!

 

[lawstraljan16]

I weigh 63kg and use a 5mm wetsuit. I was using 5kg weights but today i took one off becuase I felt it's too heavy, so now i'm using 4kg.

What are co2 tables?

Any idea how long it'll take to see a difference
Thanks for the help buddy


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[Apneaddict]

I weigh 82kg presently and use 2kg of weight. I am neutral at 15m with a 5mm suit in fresh water.

Get neutral (where you don't sink or float) at say 10m. Go to 8m and rest - and if you sink... You're too heavy

CO2 tables are a series of breath holds (say 1:30) with decreasing rests between them. Each rest gets :15 sec shorter until the last one with only a :15 sec breathe up! Use a series of 8 sets.

Search the app store for apnea / Freediving breath hold apps. There are a few that will fit the bill and you will see improvement in 2-4 weeks.

Just takes some practice.

Go get 'em!

 

[lawstraljan16]

Ok cool thanks. Ill try that weight thing you mentioned snd will try some apnea too. Thanks for the help, appreciate it.


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[lawstraljan16]

PS: i spear in the ocean so most likely need more weight than in fresh water. Ill see what the results r


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[lawstraljan16]

I downloaded the Apnea for free divers app on my iphone buy have no idea how to use it. What should I be doing? 02 or c02? What's intro? Whats BH? And how much rest should i have between breathes? Confusing...


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[Apneaddict]

Try CO2, 90 sec BreathHold (BH) with a starting rest of 110 sec and 8 rounds, decreasing by :15 each round.

If it's easy - up the breathhold duration.

You should get a lot of diaphragmatic contractions.

 

[lawstraljan16]

OK will do. So that means I'm trying to get 90 sec breathe underwater and trying to reduce my rest time right? How often should I increase my breathehold (BH)? Thanks

 

[Apneaddict]

Try a 90-sec table... And if you complete it easily... Increase the length. If you can't get to the end... Decrease the hold length by :15 sec or so.

 

[Andrew the fish]

there are other things that will improve your breathhold. Like being in shape, regular areobics help quite a bit. I find CO2 tables boring, actual diving is so much more fun. I remember me reaching those long wanted 2 minute dives only after incorporating FRC diving into my training. As a warm up, I do relaxed exhale dive for a minute, somehow that trigger better breath hold for all consecutive dives. Regarding how fast you will see results - I don't think it will be fast. I was doing great on my first time freediving and haven't improved much. Say, I reached 2 minutes after almost two years of very inconsistent occasional training. But I started with 1:30. I am talking actual dives in open waters. In the pool I could do 4 minutes static from the very beginning, I doubt I can do much better than 5 now. Someone (I think it was Trux) said that it takes regular and very strenous breathold training to see meaningful improvements. I kind of believe him, based on my personal experience.

 

[trux]

Someone (I think it was Trux) said that it takes regular and very strenous breathold training to see meaningful improvements.

This was meant for physiological adjustments, that indeed need regular and a relatively long training. However, in no way it means you can't see any improvements after a short course, or training, especially if you are guided by an experienced coach. You can improve 100% over a weekend, if you learn better technique, and some theory. Further improvement (even from tables) is reached through higher mental resistance - once you start pushing the threashold, you realize that you can push more and more. On one side it is excellent since you find you can suddenly do much longer breath-holds, on the other side your safety margin is smalle and smaller, hence increased safety measures and a reliable buddy are necessary.

So, to sum it up: quick physiological improvements - no; but quick improvements in general - yes.

 

[liutaina81]

I think the best way is to do co2 table once a week but not 3x times. If 3x times body getting too much stress, or high pressure for your heart don’t push your self too much. you have to feel very comfortable. If you are not feeling comfortable it means you are doing it wrong, I'm feeling a lot better after pranayama yoga. It’s very powerful but if you are pushing your self it can be dangerous the same as all free dive exercises. Free dive: a week it is means feel free mate :wave

 

[trux]

There is no big risk in daily training. An average table takes around 20 minutes, often much less at beginners. There were many scientific studies, where the subject intensively trained up to several hours per day during several months. There is no more risk than at any other intensive sport training. Of course, I do not mean the risks of blackout or samba, that are serious and may be fatal if you do not have any surveillance.

Training once a week is fine too, as long as you do not care about the progress and just enjoy it. Training frequently, more than just a single table per day, and especially with someone who can guide you and correct your mistakes, can make you progress very quick. Just, as at any other sport, avoid over-training. You need to have a day off, once or twice a week.

 

[Dive Cape Town]

I weigh 82kg presently and use 2kg of weight. I am neutral at 15m with a 5mm suit in fresh water.

Jeez! I'm also new to spearing - Diving Altantic a lot so rocking a 5mm open cell. I'm 79-80 kg's and im using +- 8kg's!!

I don't feel it's too much... I stay afloat without much diffuculty, i prefer being heavier as it's easier to get down. But as i said i'm new to spearing so maybe i should drop a few pounds??

 

[Alex21]

In my modest experience there is no rule of thumb for weights (other than, oh well, more than 1 kg and less than 20kgs when continuous).

Factors are:

1. Suit: Generally speaking the more mms the more weights you need.

2. Individual body types (personally when I am fatter I have a hard time submerging all the lard whereas when I am thinner I am a-ok with a lot less assistance).

3. GOAL (the most important). In deep dives the no1 goal is to make ti back to the surface. Thus the less weights the better. In shallow dives the goal is to get to the bottom (a) moving the fins as little as possible and (b) being able to stay negative in shallow water ... say 1m.

How to judge this? ... a hard one... Well know the place, know your target... plan the dive in advance and be able to refrain from going outside the plan. If you can not do the above it is best to aim for neutrality at just above the maximum depth you may dive at... better safe than sorry.

Myself I do sometimes coastal (I mean really hanging from the rockcliff) solo dives (not by choice) where the point is being quiet in the shallows. There I usually end up with something like 7-9kgs (3-5mms). I warn you it takes willpower to deny fish you glimpse at 15m+ when attired like this and if you lack the discipline dont take the chance.

When I am diving with a buddy it usually mean deeper water and 4kgs or even less.

FInally the option is there (dangerous also needs supervision and buddy) to dive holding a 20kgr weight or stone tied to a rope and abandon it at the bottom to retrieve later... I would definately NOT reccomend it though unless you know exactly what you are doing...

 

[growingupninja]

Apologies for linking to another site but this is one of the best explanations of proper weighting I have ever read. Read Ted Harty's post. Sadly, the kid who started this thread died of SWB at Dean's; diving alone and in all likelihood hyperventilating to go deeper.
Neutral bouyancy at 25ft, to deep? - Spearboard.com - The World's Largest Spearfishing Diving Social Media Forum

In my opinion, weighting too heavy (ie if you are finning to stay at the surface) is definitely a no-no, but weighting too light may be detrimental to spearing. You would need to spend a lot of time researching your own individual dive response, but for me, on deeper spearing dives, I always go as slow as possible both up and down, and I am pretty much always starting back to the surface under heavy vasoconstriction, so my muscles are working anaerobically and while they are generating tons of lactic acid which will burn them out over the course of the day, they aren't taking O2 that would otherwise go to my brain. On the way down however, DR doesn't kick in quite so well for me if I am working at high level of exertion (fighting the bouyancy of a wetsuit or if skin diving just my natural full lung bouyancy) and so my muscles are burning O2 out of the same store as what's feeding my brain. Say I am doing 90' drops, finning down to negative bouyancy and then kneeling on the bottom for one minute. If I am weighted so that I don't begin to freefall until I am 80' deep vs weighted so that I begin to freefall at 45' I will surface from that first dive (neutral at 80') with more CO2 in my blood and less O2 than on the second dive (neutral at 45') with heavier weight, and because I swim faster than I freefall, the second dive may also last longer.

 

[lawstraljan16]

Thanks for all your help guys. I've went from 5kg's to 3kgs and already feel a difference, I'm not tiring as much and I am pretty neutral in the sea.

But if I want to increase my breathe shouldn't I be doing O2 tables?
Obviously I want to improve on both CO2 and O2 but what should I start with? And how can I practice both? If so, could someone give me a schedule on how I should train these weekly?

Thanks. Happy diving


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[lawstraljan16]

Also how much rest should I take between O2 rounds, and is 4 rounds enough or should I do 8?


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