arms at side or in front?

[monofin_diva]

hi all.

i was looking at some monofin videos today just sorta peeping out everyone elses techniques. the sprinters always have their hands in front of course, but i also saw some free diving videos where the swimmer had his arms next to his side.

i personally do both. i tend to keep my arms to my side while i'm leisurely putting around in the pool, and when i want to sprint i assume the normal position.

are there times when "arms by the side" is a better technique than "arms over head?" i find both equally easy and i can stabilize myself just as good either way.

i just noticed that i didn't see too many swimmers with their arms at their sides (even when not sprinting) it is considered poor form to swim with arms by the side?

both work for me i just do them at different times. i have noticed when i'm finning on my back i can't really do that with my arms to my side, but that seems to be the only time i don't feel comfortable with my arms at my side.

hmm inquiring minds wanna know how do you guys typically mono around., any help is appreciated.

 

[Merlin]

I cannot think of any reason why hands on the side would be better unless you have very bad flexibility at the back and shoulders in which case you would probably spend too much just energy trying to hold them there in front of you. Hands in front with the head and elbows well tucked in is definitely the way to go, and I notice a significant improvement. It gives you a better streamline, and the hands in front also help you anchor your body so your undulation is not as large so you are moving forward as opposed to wasting so much energy moving up and down as much. Personally it also helps my technique be more consistent. When I started monofining I found the hands on the side easier but after practicing more it is no contest and I never do it anymore.

For the best monofining technique watch Peter P. 200m WR video

 

[monofin_diva]

hey merlin..

i don't know a LOT about finswimming techniques per se. but when i'm just leisurely swimming around it just works naturally (when i'm not swimming with speed in mind).. it just feels natural.

i saw a couple of finswimming videos for a free diving competition and maybe like 1 out of every 5 swimmers i saw used their arms next to their side (i can try to find the links actually i think i have them saved in my windows media player)

i feel just as comfortable doing both and i have a very flexible body (many years of yoga and pilates may help with that).. but i DO notice i'm not nearly as streamlined and i have to make an undulation or two extra to equal the power that i have when i swim that way, but all in all it doesnt seem that bad.

i also saw a few competitions where the divers would ascend hands by side but descended traditionally. i haven't done any u/w video of myself so i can TRULY observer my technique but for me personally i don't feel like i'm working tremendously harder.

my head doesn't really drop at the start of each stroke and i've never been a knee bender. my knees MAY bend slightly but i saw some videos where their knees were bending far more than what i'm used to personally.

aah.. this is why i need a finswimming coach, but when i saw some of the video from the people that swim with their hands to their side that's the way i tend to swim.

but when i want pure speed or less drag.. i definitely use my arms above..

does this make sense?

i was just curious.. it seems that SOME freedivers/finswimmers (but not the competition videos i saw).. do so arms by side. until today i hadn't really seen any finswimmers with their arms by side. then today i was pretty shocked to see others doing it.

i found a video online that chronicles a swimmer swimming with her arms to her side, the commentary said it's harder to do so because of problems stabilizing..

gimme a min and i can show you the videos i looked at that showed like this obstacle course sorta routine that had several of the swimmers doing so with their hands to their sides..

when i first started finswimming i noticed that i would sorta twist in the water when i had my hands in front of me, but after about 3 weeks, that stopped. i only twist when i initiate it.

i can get the links to the videos i saw if anyone is interested. maybe the techniques can be compared. i have DEFINITELY noticed that the sprinters have a different technique than long distance swimmers choose.

the apnea competition i saw was very intriguing to see the swimmers that chose to swim arms by side vs the swimmers that chose to go arms first.

i just edited the post.. here are some of the videos i saw:
mms://www.cmas2000.org/jumpblueuk <-- at least one of the diver here used a hands by side technique however he's using bi fins but a monofin sorta undulation. this particular video is like 19 min long

i have a TON of monofinswimming videos/clips (some i didnt save, some i did).. so i hope i can re-find the clips i have of a finswimminer using a hands-by-side technique..

on this link..http://www.freedivingfinland.net/nuke/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=viewdownload&cid=1 the 3rd video down is supposed to show a clip of a woman that swims with her arms next to her side, but i wasnt able to view it, however this was the commentary of the clip:

"Hands on side dynamic. With this tecnicque it is not so easy to keep your upper body stabile. But if you manage, you will see, that your back will be more flexible, and your whole upper body is more relaxed. With this shortie suit I am wearing 4kg weightbelt and also I am having a 1,2kg neckweight."

forgive me if the links dont work. i'm sorta new at this

 

[Merlin]

Drag increases proporsional to the square of velocity so if you are swimming slow you won't notice much of a difference. If you look at Tom Sietas dynamics with bi-fins he does them with his hands on the sides but he is swimming SO slow that it doesn't really matter. He is technique is almost like a 'static'. However like you said if you go faster you will definitely notice a difference. I notice that I have to put more effort with the hands on the side but I have gotten so used to having them in front that even when 'leisurely' swimming slowly I keep them up front -I guess it is a matter of what you are used to.

Check out Peter P. 200m WR video He has an AMAZING technique.

 

[monofin_diva]

would it be considered poor technique though? to swim arms by side? (like i said, not for sprinting, i imagine that would probably impossible)

i edited the post and included two links to some places i saw swimmers using the "arms by side" dynamic. i still don't see many doing it.

my preference tends to be with hands in front just because its MUCH more effortless to swim with hands in front of my head. but if i'm leisurely swimming i do both interchangably without THAT much of a loss of effort (but i'm swimming slowly)

but 'i've seen a few with their arms by side (once again not during sprints)

im on my way to view the link you sent now, thanks for your help merlin
:girlie

 

[Merlin]

would it be considered poor technique though? to swim arms by side? (like i said, not for sprinting, i imagine that would probably impossible)

It's not bad technique just preference, and in the end it is all about what you feel confortable and happy with isn't it? If you are worried about someone making fun of you for swimming with your hands on your side... I don't think you have to worry

 

[monofin_diva]

that's a cool video.. the one you posted the link to. what i loved the MOST was the way he did his turns. ok who am i kidding, his whole technique is great. that's how i swim with my arms in front of me. i'm careful not to splash or BARELY break the surface with my fin. but the turns were different than what i'm used to seeing.

perhaps he does a different turn when he's competing. sexy video (can i say sexy here? ..lol well i just did)..

the two videos i posted links to were different.. hopefully someone with quicktime that works can spy the video with the woman that uses an arms by side technique for dynamic at times.

i really love the video you sent me.

this is my favourite video so far. they just move so damn fast and i love the music on this edit (also on the edit of the link you posted)

mms://www.cmas2000.org/finswimming

i guess it is all personal technique, but at the same time i'm attempting to work on my form. i really love finswimming and honestly, i'd love to compete one day (before i get too damn old). but moreover i'm anal about certain things like form. to me the perfect form is an art. and i was always in the school of thought that arms above head is perfect form, but arms by side may not be because i never see many PRO freedivers use it.

i really appreciate your input

i sure hope the link i post are working.. i know you need windows media player to open them. when i click the links they open automatically.

 

[Merlin]

One thing to notice in the video is how shallow his undulations are and he never slows down at any point of the undulation. He is also swimming REALLY fast 30sec per 50m for all 4x50m.

P.S. I have in my library the second video you posted. If you cannot download it from there let me know and I can upload it. I have another copy of the 200m WR which is better resolution but it is too large to put on my school's server.

 

[monofin_diva]

yeah.. i totally noticed that..

too damn bad i can't see the video of the girl that was doing the arms by side dynamic. i just read the commentary.

i've seen some videos where their knees are bent SEVERELY..like approaching 90 degrees.. to me that seems contrary to efficiency. when i do it (i tried bending my knees more just to see).. it feels unnatural and it also impedes me a LOT. like it totally slows me down.

when i keep the start of undulation at my hips.. i raise my butt.. my hips drop, my legs sorta raise instinctively .. then the undulation starts at my head/clavicle area agains and continues like a ripple throughout my body. i never seem to MOVE my legs purposefully.. they sorta just follow the ripple through my body. my arms sorta act like rudders instead of my legs if that makes sense.

if i want to turn left or right i just move my arms according then my body sorta follows the undulation.

seeing the technique of the video you posted really helped.

damn i want a finswimming coach.

thanks so much!

 

[SEDATE]

Frendo
1 years ago, i left from the team and stoped monofins,bi-fins,without fins. i bored being in the pool all the time.
Anyway, if you think dolphins, remember their acts in the water your body must act like them

mono fins;to give your body good hydrodinamic, your hand shold be in front, body act must be like dolphins

Bi-fins; changes can be next to you

dont swim to close to the bottom of pool, 1m up from bottom, 1 meter down from surface, in the middle to eliminate the turbilance

 

[jome]

on this link..http://www.freedivingfinland.net/nuke/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=viewdownload&cid=1 the 3rd video down is supposed to show a clip of a woman that swims with her arms next to her side, but i wasnt able to view it, however this was the commentary of the clip:

Try this: http://www.freedivingfinland.net/tiedostot/Pb230002teppo.mov
You need to have quicktime installed.

And it's not a woman By the way, I don't think even he does the "hands on the side" style anymore, I'm not sure...Maybe Teppo can comment him self he happens to read this.

Some people seem to get the "hands on the side" style to work, but just as a gut feeling I'd say the traditional style is easier to learn if you are flexible enough to do that. In the hands on the side style I think you generally want to go slower to cover the same distance than with the traditional (in which you can go quite fast). I think it's closer to swimming with bi-fins (which is almost static with fins in the optimum speed).

Different styles, different strategies...In the end, what ever works, works, so go with that.

 

[monofin_diva]

merlin.. that would be great if you could post that link. i still can't view it for some reason.. it will start to like download like its going to open then i get a broken quicktime looking logo.

thanks for posting the alternate link jome, but sadly the same thing happened. and hehe i wonder why they thought it was a woman. you do make a good point though. in regards to holding your hands by the side when you want to go slower, sometimes i don't feel like going that fast. i am having a problem swimming near the bottom. i keep floating up so i swim just under the suface. i need to get some weights but i wouldn't know where to put them. putting weights around my waist seem like they would throw my undulation off.. i'll have to borrow my friends weight belt and see

thanks

 

[Merlin]

Are you sure you have the latest Quicktime installed? I think that is the problem.

Get a neck weight and put it well on your ....neck If you notice the video I gave you, Peter uses one too. You can either make one (check forum for how to do this) or buy ankle weights and use them as neck weights. Do not hang weights from your waist!

 

[monofin_diva]

actually. someone sent me a link today to some ankle weights and suggested i hang them on my neck. that was actually the logical place i'd thought to put them. at first he suggested i put them on my ankles and i'm like :hmm .. uh no.

that's when he suggested i try them on my neck. which i confirmed. the waist wouldn't work. i know the way i swim that would just screw everything up.

as far as quicktime goes.. it's odd.. i just downloaded it a few days ago to view another video..it plays SOME quicktime videos but not others.

i'm really dying to see that arms-by-side dynamic technique video.

i love watching videos of other peoples techniques..

thanks merlin

 

[Merlin]

Here are two different technique styles, if you just wanna see what's out there.

large slow undulation
Video1

hands on the side
Video2
Video3

 

[monofin_diva]

the second video didnt work for me but the 1st and 3rd one did.

wow that first video is so cool.. first and foremost if i ever win the lottery i want a pool like that in my back yard.. although i cant complain about my pool

also, it was really interesting to see two different swimmers techniques on the same footage.

the guy closer to the camera bent his knees a LOT more.. the one farther from the camera who seemed to be the focus of the footage had a NICE form and technique.. very fluid. i tend not to bend my knees so i related to his technique a lot more. but doesnt he have weights around his waist?

either way he has a great technique.

ps.. i'm jealous of those bi finswimmers that you see periodically.. damn how do they do it. i put on a pair of bi fins and i can't get it down. it feels so unnatural to me. my mono feels at home on my feet but when my friends put it on.. or friends that are used to stereo fins they sink in it.. oh well.. i guess to each their own, but i wish i could move that fluidly through the water with a pair of bi fins on.. eeh.. i love my monofin.. i wouldn't trade being able to swim in my mono for being able to swim in bi fins ever.

 

[monofin_diva]

hey merlin

the first hands on side video didnt work for me.. but the second one did..

that's great to see it!.. i'm really happy right now to see it.

i still swim both ways. i often find when i do lap turns, the first undulation will be hands by side then i put them back in front to complete the lap.

great link.. thanks.. i wish i could see the first one for hands by side.

i wonder who the guy in the other videos is. he has an AMAZING form. it's just so damn fluid. he must be part dolphin

lol i just saw i already responded to this thread.. oh well.. i'm having an off day :hmm