Beginner questions (Tables, Frenzel and Wieght Belt)

[happy_halfling]

After a couple of snorkelling trips to Egypt, I (and my wife) have the Freediving bug. We have no plans to do anything other than a bit of recreational snorkelling / freediving.

At the moment, the best I can to is around 30 seconds underwater to a depth of around 5-7m. I didn’t really push the breath holding, but had major problems equalising.

After doing some reading on this site, it appears the best way to improve is to start CO2 / O2 tables and learn to “Frenzel”.

The tables found in the “How To Start Freediving” sticky are based on a PB static time of 3 mins. At the moment, by PB static is a little over 1 minute. I understand the CO2 hold is 50% or static PB and O2 hold is 80%, but what should the recovery period be?

The example is:
An example of a CO² Table:
1. ventilate 2:30 static 1:30
2. ventilate 2:15 static 1:30
3. ventilate 2:00 static 1:30
4. ventilate 1:45 static 1:30
5. ventilate 1:30 static 1:30
6. ventilate 1:15 static 1:30
7. ventilate 1:00 static 1:30
8. ventilate 1:00 static 1:30

Should I just take this and divide everything by 3, or should the “ventilate” stage be left as it is in the example?

Regarding Frenzel, I have downloaded the “Frenzel_Fattah_English_r2006” pdf. This looks like a good guide, anyone have any other tips.

Finally, when diving down I spend a lot of energy fighting against my own buoyancy. Should I get a weight belt to hep with this, if so, what weight. I’ve heard that freedivers aim for neutral buoyancy at 10m and also that without a wetsuit I should go for around 5% or my body weight. Is this correct?

Thanks for your help.

PS, sorry about the typo in the title! Should be Weight Belt!

 

[Apneaddict]

To start, in the AM in your bed still, do a series of 5 maximum attempt single breath holds, with a 3:00. min rest in between.

Use a stopwatch to time them.

Focus on complete muscular relaxation throughout the various body parts and try to clear the mind of any thoughts. Just relax and shutdown.

Your diaphragm may start to spasm / contract - that's ok and normal. Just try to relax some more.

I think this should help you get a more accurate baseline of your "max".

Breathe normally in between, or in a 5-seconds inhale and 10 seconds exhale pattern.

You may be surprised at your results of you doing this 5x over the next 7-10 days.

Each hold will likely get easier and longer within a training session and over the 5 sessions you should also see a significant improvement as well.

Once you have a new baseline, we can talk tables and equalization.

Have fun and relax.

 

[LondonPoleSpear]

Regarding frenzel, the best info I ever picked up was to:
1) Say the letter T and your tongue will naturally go into the correct position (with your tongue on the roof of your mouth and behind you teeth)
2) With your tongue in this position try and say the letter K
3) You should if done correctly get a short burst of air coming out your nose, then to equalize hold your nose.

 

[HLanger1955]

Compensation: You might try first in a deep pool (3-5 m), where you descent easily (less bouancy than in the sea) and have a restricted, well known environment around.
Static. I would try to increase breathhold times gradually, even only by a couple of seconds each time.
By the way there's plenty of litgerature...for example by Umberto Pellizari, famous Italian freediever who founded "Apnea Academy" for research purposes and the design of a very specific teaching program.

 

[happy_halfling]

Thanks to everyone for the replies. It's been very useful.

@Apneaddict - after giving your advice a go, I feel a bit foolish claiming my PB static was "a little over 1 min".

I managed to get some time to myself today, after a couple of goes, I can do 2:45! I'll do as you suggested and keep trying to for a max time every couple of days for the next 10 days.

Once I have the new max time I'll make up a table and post it here for comment.

@LondonPoleSpear - not sure I understand correctly, I can do as you suggest, and do feel air coming out of my nose, but I'm pretty sure it's being pushed out of my lungs, not by my tongue.

 

[Apneaddict]

'atta boi!!!

Great work! Keep at it. It's fun to see progress like that. Congrats!

 

[happy_halfling]

Quick progress report:

Breath Hold - on hold (pun intended!) at the moment due to hectic work / family schedule. Should be able to get time this week though.

Frenzel - I can now do a full exhale with some reverse packing and still pop my ears. I'm pretty sure I'm creating the pressure with my tongue, so I think this one is done! Still need to test in deep water though.

And a question: can someone explain "hands free equalisation"? I am able to open the eustachian tubes at will, and I use this on flights. I've never tried it in water though. Is that all there is to this?

Thanks.

 

[Apneaddict]

How's the training going?

 

[John B Griffith Jr]

"And a question: can someone explain "hands free equalisation"? I am able to open the Eustachian tubes at will, and I use this on flights. I've never tried it in water though. Is that all there is to this?"

If you have the Frenzel down, and it seems you do, then with a nose clip, you are on your way to equalizing at will. But, it appears that most Apneists are referring to Voluntary Tubal OpeningFrench: béance tubaire volontaire (BTV) ).
"The subject must either exercise a voluntary control of the tensor veli palatini muscles opening the eustachian tubes, or move the jaw to open the tubes when necessary. This is less easy to execute than the Valsalva maneuver, but the BTV is the gentlest method to clear the ears.[10] However, not all divers can perform this manoeuvre. It may be necessary to engage in ear training exercises to train the muscles to perform this manoeuvre. Another description of the method is to tense the muscles of the soft palate and the throat while pushing the jaw forward and down as if starting to yawn. This should pull the eustachian tubes open.
Some people are able to voluntarily hold their Eustachian tubes open continuously for a period of several seconds to minutes. The 'clicking your ears' can actually be heard if one puts one's ear to another person's ear for them to hear the clicking sound. Those that are borderline on learning this voluntary control first discover this via yawning or swallowing or other means; which after practice can be done deliberately without force even when there are no pressure issues involved. When the Eustachian Tubes are deliberately held open, one's voice sounds louder in one's head than when they are closed." Ear clearing. (2015, April 3). In Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Retrieved 10:10, April 21, 2015, from http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ear_clearing&oldid=654798336

 

[baiyoke]

Just a quick word of advice: Now that you are using tables, weights, improving fast etc. (and in general) also take time to study safety-guidelines. Very important also, especially because you are now able to push far into co2-levels