Beginning free diving... Mono or bi fins?

[Woogie]

True, it does look quite addicting.

I've been looking at Mako's line of gear. From what I read, it seems top notch for the price.

 

[Whopperhead]

Mako will give you a good deal. They've treated a lot of our divers well. I'm personally just not sold on the Quality.

 

[monkeyhatfork]

agree on the 3000 lds and the sphera mask the sphera is my all time favorite mask just make sure it goes right back into the case after use for protection cause they cant take a pounding like solid frame masks not cause the build quality is bad they are just more fragile by design but its a strength in design, lenses are fine just make sure u rinse them and dont put them away wet or stuff will start growing on them and pit the plastic lens

 

[baiyoke]

I don't normally interject on other people's comments....... but you my friend are wrong.

Bi-Fins are NOT more effective. It takes me 6 kicks with a monofin to get to 'sink faze'. With Bi's it takes 11 sets of kicks. And that's with Carbons.

Where did I state that bifins are more effective????? I'm writing the exact opposite! Jesus... I'f you take the time to comment, take the time to read first...

But aside from that: Your kick versus kick tells nothing about how effective (propulsion versus O2 usage) any fin is... It tells you how many kicks you have to do... Nothing else... I'm surprised you can't see that...

And about the carbon fins: It's my impression that it's only the manufacturer that get's anything out of that material, and that's moneywise... They seem extremely overrated! Hardly any more effective, much more fragile and 5 times the cost...

 

[monkeyhatfork]

And one last thing: The effectivenes of a monofin is for most people exagerated in their minds. We are talking a small percentage over bifins, of course depending on the individual charateristics, but still.... For some people bifins might even be more effective I think...

think he was responding to this statement were u did kind of say that. monos have a pretty substantial effort for o2 advantage i dont think that is exagerated in peoples minds the disadvantage over bifins is the lack of o2 efficient maneuverability i.e. anything other than a straight line, also as stated i don't think they are hard to learn or control and if the intent is to use one down the line its easier to start with one than switch from bi fins and the statement about more lactic burn in mono made no sense to me but i guess if he was a bi fin guy maybe using way too much leg and maybe very weak core but thats got nothing to do with the fin. really not fighting with u i like both equally and use both as for the plastic vs. carbon copperhead did after all recommend the plastic fins. I have c4 mustangs and an amazing pair of sperre carbons but my bifin pb is actually with my plastic cressis is there a big realized performance difference in expensive carbon maybe not but the feeling is pretty substantial and that matters too i can feel the water with carbons and feel how the fin is reacting not so much with the plastic its a matter of preference

 

[baiyoke]

Monkeyhatfork where exactly am I saying bifins are more effective than monos?
Please spell it out exactly where in that quote...

I'm saying monos are a little more effective than bifins...
I'm saying FOR SOME people bi-fins might be more effective.

monos have a pretty substantial effort for o2 advantage i dont think that is exagerated in peoples minds

Can you back it up with any link or anything, please?

 

[monkeyhatfork]

no point in arguing this further im going to sleep gotta get up and go diving in the morning. with bi fins no less:t

 

[monkeyhatfork]

as far as efficiency of propulsion bi fins are the least efficient consider that bi fins records have been surpassed by wearing no fins at all. and with fins u have to go back over a decade to find any serious wr attempts that arent mono. but what they lack in propulsion they make up for in agility making them equally maybe even more useful for most peoples recreational needs tho from what people are saying the x20 might be a solution to mono lack of agility. why would i need to provide links is use them i know my energy expenditures

 

[baiyoke]

why would i need to provide links is use them i know my energy expenditures

I just wanted to know if you could back up the claim that "monos have a pretty substantial effort for o2 advantage i dont think that is exagerated in peoples minds..." And you can't, so know I know it's just an idea you have in your mind, just talk or just ideas, just like I said many people have...

as far as efficiency of propulsion bi fins are the least efficient consider that bi fins records have been surpassed by wearing no fins at all. and with fins u have to go back over a decade to find any serious wr attempts that arent mono.

Makes no sense to measure efficiency by taking an old bi-fin record and compare it with new DNF ones... Especially when in the next line you recognize people aren't doing bifins record attempts anymore in general... You would have to look at the level of the other records at that time... Bi-fin and DNF:

08/29/06: World record in dynamic apnea - 223m (Tokyo, Japan)
08/27/06: World record in dynamic apnea without fins - 183m (Tokyo, Japan)

Also, on a more anecdotal line, many people have told about Sietas doing 250m in training sessions...

Now take Gorans 273m DYn and Sietas 223m, that's a 22% longer dive... 6!!! years later... In that time the DNF and the static grew (recognizing national records)
DNF: 183m to 232m = 27%
Static: 9:00 min to 12:11 min = 35%

So actually after everybody changed to mono, and therefor mostly train and compete with monos, the DYN record is the one growing the least! I don't know what would have happened if everybody had kept doing bifins, but I'd say that a 22% change in 6 years, and being the slowest pool disciplines in growth, is not pointing in the direction of the claim that "monos have a pretty substantial effort for o2 advantage i dont think that is exagerated in peoples minds..."!

Like I said before, I too still think that monos are in general more efficient, but not a lot. AND: You cannot actually say that about a monofin in itself, because you have to look at the hole system: Fin + person... For some people bi-fins might be more efficient, including people of different build (body) and people who doesn't have the time to get the right technique... This is especially true for pool disciplines...

For depth the mono probably have a bigger advantage, because of the forces that have to be overcomed, and the power that a monofin can create, wich might be useful...

Iøm not claiming that I know exactly what's going on, but I am claiming that most people think of the mono as something far more efficient than it is... Too many myths and misconceptions in our sport, and I dislike when they are presented as facts without any backup...

However, I believe that the future have some development on the way, that will make monos more efficient for record breaking guys and girls, than the common hyperfins and bi-fins...

 

[monkeyhatfork]

" And you can't, so know I know it's just an idea you have in your mind, just talk or just ideas, just like I said many people have...

I appologize for valuing my own real in water time over internet links rofl

Makes no sense to measure efficiency by taking an old bi-fin record and compare it with new DNF ones..

actually a new bi fin record was set this week 94 meters and stepanek has said that his 93 meter bi fins was by far the hardest one hes done.

in the next line you recognize people aren't doing bifins record attempts anymore in general..

and u don't see a legitmate reason why a switch was made to monos?

but I am claiming that most people think of the mono as something far more efficient than it is... Too many myths and misconceptions in our sport,

Ok so Goran, Mullins, Molchanov et. all are not benefiting from monos at all but merely sheep following a free dive social trend rofl

and I dislike when they are presented as facts without any backup...
[/QUOTE

u have offered almost entirely opinion very little to back up any
unless ur counting someones uncles sister knew a guy who said tom did a really really long dyn with bi fins i dont understand why so defensive im not even knocking bi fins

So actually after everybody changed to mono, and therefor mostly train and compete with monos, the DYN record is the one growing the least! I don't know what would have happened if everybody had kept doing bifins, but I'd say that a 22% change in 6 years, and being the slowest pool disciplines in growth, is not pointing in the direction of the claim that "monos have a pretty substantial effort for o2 advantage i dont think that is exagerated in peoples minds..."!

very weak logic, progress will slow as u get closer to the max of human potential it would no doubt be even slower with bi fins sorry dude i dont think u are gunna get anyone agreeing that bi fins are the solution to yet longer dyn.

 

[monkeyhatfork]

and poor woogie he thought he was just asking
for some simple fin advice rofl

 

[baiyoke]

sorry dude i dont think u are gunna get anyone agreeing that bi fins are the solution to yet longer dyn.

Why is it that you can't read a simple message??? It is pointless to start a good dialog with poeple who put the words in others mouth, especially the opposite of what they said. Twice!!

Let's call it a day, happy diving... And woogie got plenty of feedback to chew on...

 

[Hydro-Mike]

Woogie, glad your starting to explore the water. I to started a couple of years ago. I choose a pair of cressi 3000 LD fins. My reasons where 1) I don't plan on doing any really deep dives, 2) I rarely go in a straight line, 3) I do different water activities ie surface swimming , spearing, wreck exploration. I also generally don't baby equipment I buy. I bought mine 2 years ago and have used them exclusively. No regrets here.
Monkeyhatfork gives good advise, seems to be a easy going guy, good for the sport and I trust his opinion. The most important thing I have learned in the last two years is relax. Then relax some more, if your having some difficulty either mental or physical it will be overcome easier if you work at relaxing then addressing it. Good Luck

 

[HLanger1955]

Fins: For a beginner bi-fins should be easier to start with. The mono is fine and it is beautiful to watch people who have a good technique but this needs a lot of training for most common people. I improved my stile with excersizing the dolphi kick with small swimming fins and even barefoot. Besides, I prefer soft fins. The Cressi 3000 LD is certainly a good choice at the beginning, the C4 Falcon (soft) is simply wonderful for me (I'm not superman, however, with 176 cm / 65 kg...).
Mask: The Cressi Minima is a gof choice, besides I have a Cressi Occhio Plus, which has Greater glasses, but still a small volume.

 

[Taylor.Stevens]

Is it possible to learn if you have a buddy who knows all of the rescue techniques safely?

 

[monkeyhatfork]

are u asking about learning to free dive? or learning mono fin? bi-fin? if u have safety of course any off its possible, and in my opinion allot of people highly exaggerate the difficulty of mono fin will ur form be perfect right away probably not but keep in mind records have been set with horrible technique so no need to be overly obsessed with that to start with either