boats?

[desertbake]

I'm in the market to purchase a boat, but have pretty limited experience with them.

How do you know or what criteria is there for a boat to be capable of going out on the ocean? I'm not talking about major expeditions, just few hour trips on the ocean for blue water hunting.

Sorry for the stupid question, but I'm new to the whole boat ownership thing.

 

[roy_nexus_6]

I have been asking the same question lately (I am thinking of getting a sailboat) and the answers usually as follows:

If you are a hardcore spearo, then get a powerboat that would get you there and back fast . If you have the time and are NOT planning to hit multiple spearfishing sites in one day, then sailboats are o'k. Also with the fuel prices being where they are you have to take in to account the fuel consumption, as some of the power boats consume 1-3 gallons / nautical mile.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

Which ocean? The requirements for a suitable boat will vary a great deal depending on whether you plan to dive the Straits of Magellan, the Great Barrier Reef, the Florida Keys, and whether there is something like a US Coast Guard available for rescue.

Some examples- when I went 50 miles offshore in North Carolina, I was 50 miles from land. If I go just 30 miles offshore here in Southern California, I can be at an island with safe harbors and anchorage, so I'm never more than 15 miles from land. And the Coast Guard has antennas on the top of coastal mountains and the islands, so I can get good coverage calling for help.

When I went out of the mouth of the Rio Colorado in Costa Rica, there was no Coast Guard to call, and high waves against the outgoing current at the mouth of the river, where there was no marked channel, could make it almost impossible to get back inside.

So I hope you can see that the question is impossible to answer without more information. But if you have no experience, you need to take a course in basic seamanship and/or go out with experienced watermen to learn what is going on.

 

[David Biron]

From my experience an ocean going vessel should be at least 25ft with 22 - 24 degree deadrise at the transom .... meaning a deep V hull. You can fish with a smaller boat on nice days... the larger hull will however provide a much smoother ride. Most boats in this category will be outfitted with twin engines...a requirement for ocean going vessels in South Africa. If you can afford a 26 - 28 ft boat with twin engines and GPS/Sonar/Radar/VHf... you can fish where ever you please.

Hope this helps.

 

[miles]

Hiya

From my experience an ocean going vessel should be at least 25ft with 22 - 24 degree deadrise at the transom .... meaning a deep V hull.

Just illustrates HOW important location is: i use a 21' SEMI RIGID INFLATABLE cat to spearfish up to 40nm from land, in one of the worst sea's in the world!! We also have certain limitations on which size boats. Only boats over a certain length can operate 40nm from land and they MUST have TWO engines, with the boat being able to plane with only one motor, VHF radio, safety kit, etc.

If you're operatin in a remore area, opt for a vessel with TWO motors. Should you break down, you'd be able to get back with the other motor. This is less of an issue if you have good sea rescue facilities in your area.

Boat choices will drive you crazy!! The BEST bet is simply to look at what boats the guys are using in your location. That will give you an indication on what size and type to start looking at. The first point would be whether you're going to tow your boat or moor it. How big a rig CAN your vehicle tow? That in itself is a very limiting factor.

Almost EVERY spearo you ask what boat is the best will give you a different answer!! And they'd all be right!! So, give a bit more detail, hear what the other forum members have to say and they go test drive as MANY TYPES of boats you can!!

Here's a VERY good thread on spearing boats:
[ame="http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?t=64567"]Spearing: Boat, RIB, Dory, Dinghy, Dive Kayak?[/ame]

HAPPY SHOPPING!!

Regards
miles

 

[desertbake]

Thanks for all the info.

I live in Phoenix, AZ so most of the boats I see around here are bass boats/other lake boats. I'd mostly be using it for spearing at Lake Powell, but I want the ability to be able to take it to California and Baja. I plan on going with other people for ocean trips so I'm not too worried about breaking down with no one around, and I do plan on taking some boating/seamanship courses besides what I'll pick up from the people I do know.

Can anyone familiar with the California/Baja area suggest any particular makes/models?

 

[surfsk8boy]

parker, skipjack, striper, trophy, and theres many others but thats just a few that i thought of

 

[sickbugs]

i come from a boating background, and i'll give u one friendly piece of advice, learn as MUCH as you can about boats, boating, safety, charts, navigation, before you drop down your first cent on a boat, i see too many people head out to sea on nice boats, and yet they have no idea what they are doing, and dont only read books, get out there and learn it, go out with others, if you can, get a job on a commercial boat, even if only for a week, every school holiday of mine from the time i was 8, i was working on a commercial fishing boat, and i can honestly say that the experience was priceless. on a lake, any bass boat i guess would do the job, but when you are hitting the ocean, its a different ballgame, i have taken 18 footers out in the ocean with a single 40 outboard, in 10 foot seas, and felt perfectly safe, but felt unsafe on some larger boats. it helps to meet the boatbuilder, learn about his methods, see how much emphasis he puts on safety. ive seen guys fiberglass in double the ammount of ribs (stringers) that a boat would need, ive seen other guys laugh at them for this, saying that they have a heavier, slower boat, but when i asked them why, i got the simple answer, it makes a safer boat.

i wont reccomend a boat, couldnt do that anyways not knowing what conditions you have. but i'll give some general pointers

twin engines are better than one everyone else has pointed that out for a reason, safety.

the more deadrise a boat has, and the narrower it is, the worse it will behave when at anchor. this is a generalized statement, but ive yet to be on a deadrise hull that offers the stability of a semi-displacement when at anchor.

dont buy a boat from any company that offers anything as accessories when they should be standard, items like stainless steel cleats, reinforced transom, marine grade connectors on the electronics, bowrails or handrails (you will need them if you are a newbie to boats, some sort of basic sun protection, running lights, always remember to check what type of steering it has, and get some feedback from others.

do a navigation course, and if you can find one, a good basic seamanship course, and also first aid. the fisheries devision down here offers them free, but i believe that you would have to pay for that stuff in the states, dont take navigation for granted, in april, one of the boat captains i know went adrift for 4 days, before managing to get the engine working again (allways try to get a twin engined boat!!!) and if he didnt know proper navigation, i think he would have hit africa before getting back to barbados, it also helped that he uses charts, he could plot his drift direction, thats how he knew which way was home.

on that topic, make sure u have adequate dry (waterproof) storage, for items like charts, books, ect. dont ever rely on electronics.

when deciding on engines, its easy to think bigger is better, and yea, bigger does generally mean more speed, but look at conditions, doesnt make sense running twin 250's if the sea is usually between 4-6 foot, it would be more economical to run 150's instead. gas doesnt seem to get any cheaper as time goes on.. and even tho i say this, id find it extremely hard to say no to a pair of honda 225's. do all your homework, and you will find the right boat for you, and you will enjoy it 100%

 

[desertbake]

http://www.trophyfishing.com/brochure.asp?modelid=54065

I'm presently dealing on this one...whadda ya think?

 

[Ted Budion]

http://www.trophyfishing.com/brochure.asp?modelid=54065

Isn't this brand a spinoff from the Bayliner's Trophy line? They look good but they might not take the beating. BTW, are you going to trailer it to Baja? Stick with reputable names amongst spearfishers, IMHO.

 

[fleedermouse]

Well you've gotten some great advice already on this thread.

Personally, I think that you can't go wrong with a Whaler. Lake Pacific gets so mean so fast and it's nice to know that you have a capable and safe craft when you trailer your boat 500-1000 miles and the forecast is iffy. Everybody says they are too spendy but they are unsinkable and they look cool. The 17' Montauk is also very trailerable, economical at the pump and a versatile boat with shallow draft. It is a very popular dive boat as well. The next step up is the Outrage series with a little better ability to bust through the chop but it is a heavier boat to trailer long distances (not to mention more expensive purchase price).

The trophy's are great and all and you see that you can get so much more boat for less money but I figure you get what you pay for. I can say this: Trophy's are pretty rolly when compared to other higher end boat lines (Parker, Grady White, Boston Whaler)

Don't mean to dis anybody's boat, I just think it's a huge purchase that you really need to hear as many opinions as possible to make a good choice. Look at it like a piece of real estate. How easily will you be able to sell whatever boat you buy? how well will you be able to maintain it? can you trailer it with something less than a V-10?

 

[Ted Budion]

Whalers are great for spearfishing in small groups (4 max, 2 or 3 ideal), particularly the Montauk 17, if you don't mind the pounding. And if you don't, you might want to check the pangas now sold in the US. They pound in choppy seas, but they're an excellent compromise on price, safety at sea, navegability, operation costs and loading capacity. Any spearfisher who dove the Sea of Cortez can attest to this. There are some pangas vendors in the US, now. Check those two out: http://www.pangamarine.com and http://www.panga.com

 

[desertbake]

Again, thanks for all the info!

The #1 reason why I'm looking at the trophy is because I found a good deal at a local dealership. It's an '05 and is on closeout sale.

Those Pangas look really cool, but when I looked at the prices listed on www.pangamarine.com it looks like the 22'10" model with trailer, with same hp engine as the trophy I'm looking at is the same price I'll be paying for the trophy.


Hopefully last question: Will the Trophy be a relatively safe boat as a Lake Pacific coastal boat?

 

[sickbugs]

what about a glacier bay cat? lovely boats i think that if i lived in the US and i was looking for a small boat, id probably go with one of them.

 

[desertbake]

Oops, on my last post I meant to say (panga + engine + trailer)=(trophy + engine + trailer)

 

[fleedermouse]

Will the Trophy be a relatively safe boat as a Lake Pacific coastal boat?

The boat is just part of the safety equation. The knowledge/sensibility of captain and crew is another huge piece. That being said, Trophy's are fine boats for the Pacific offshore fishery.

 

[Ted Budion]

(panga + engine + trailer)=(trophy + engine + trailer)

Desertbake, I was surprised by your comparison between the Panga x Trophy. I know you can fly (on flat seas) in 22' Panga with a 90hp outboard. But a 22' Trophy with 90hp wouldn't even go into plane. Due to bottom design and narrower beam, you need less power to run a panga, than a regular modified-V hull like Trophy's, of the same length (even if they weigh the same).

I dove a lot off pangas in Mexico and Central America, and they take a lot of seas. Evidently, they pound more in choppy short seas. You need only to reduce speed (which you'd have to do anyway in a modified-V bottom boat like Trophy's). If good ride in rough seas is the priority, you need a catmaran (my favorites) or deep-V monohull. If I were to choose a mono V-hull boat in the 22' bracket I'd go for a 24° deadrise V-hull, for example: http://www.bluewaterboats.com or a Bull Dolphin http://www.dolphinboats.com. I'm sure there are good deep-v boat manufacturers in the West Coast.

Myself? My first two priorities are a good ride and a sturdy construction. Then I try to match the options with my wallet. If costs (which include purchase and maintenance/fuel) make me cut short some of the two, I'd get a panga because I'd have a hull with longer water line, sturdy construction and low operating costs.

I drove a Trophy in the South Atlantic (off shore Rio de Janeiro), a 24 footer I think, and, sincerely, I didn't like it. But Trophies are nice boats on the show-room, relativelly inexpensive, and perform OK on a normal day at sea. Since they're made for hi-production and low-price, you've to compromise somewhere. I didn't like the Trophy for my personal taste, but, I agree, it does fill an important niche in the market.

After guns and rigging, nothing provokes more discussion than boats. I know I wouldn't buy a Trophy, however, if you only go out on good conditions, perhaps the Trophy would be perfect for you.

It may seem dumb to state "if you out in good conditions" because, in theory, that's what people should do anyway. Well, not quite with spearfishers. All spearos I know (and they are many, trust me), myself included, would go out in seas that make most "boaters" stay home. Many times, seas are rough but conditions good (visibility, temperature and fish incidence). I know I would go out, so my boat would have to take this beating...

Maybe it's just me:t

 

[desertbake]

No, the Trophy has a 150hp. I was just trying to show that the same sized panga with same engine, etc was the same price I'll be paying for the trophy.

Desertbake, I was surprised by your comparison between the Panga x Trophy. I know you can fly (on flat seas) in 22' Panga with a 90hp outboard. But a 22' Trophy with 90hp wouldn't even go into plane. Due to bottom design and narrower beam, you need less power to run a panga, than a regular modified-V hull like Trophy's, of the same length (even if they weigh the same).

I dove a lot off pangas in Mexico and Central America, and they take a lot of seas. Evidently, they pound more in choppy short seas. You need only to reduce speed (which you'd have to do anyway in a modified-V bottom boat like Trophy's). If good ride in rough seas is the priority, you need a catmaran (my favorites) or deep-V monohull. If I were to choose a mono V-hull boat in the 22' bracket I'd go for a 24° deadrise V-hull, for example: http://www.bluewaterboats.com or a Bull Dolphin http://www.dolphinboats.com. I'm sure there are good deep-v boat manufacturers in the West Coast.

Myself? My first two priorities are a good ride and a sturdy construction. Then I try to match the options with my wallet. If costs (which include purchase and maintenance/fuel) make me cut short some of the two, I'd get a panga because I'd have a hull with longer water line, sturdy construction and low operating costs.

I drove a Trophy in the South Atlantic (off shore Rio de Janeiro), a 24 footer I think, and, sincerely, I didn't like it. But Trophies are nice boats on the show-room, relativelly inexpensive, and perform OK on a normal day at sea. Since they're made for hi-production and low-price, you've to compromise somewhere. I didn't like the Trophy for my personal taste, but, I agree, it does fill an important niche in the market.

After guns and rigging, nothing provokes more discussion than boats. I know I wouldn't buy a Trophy, however, if you only go out on good conditions, perhaps the Trophy would be perfect for you.

It may seem dumb to state "if you out in good conditions" because, in theory, that's what people should do anyway. Well, not quite with spearfishers. All spearos I know (and they are many, trust me), myself included, would go out in seas that make most "boaters" stay home. Many times, seas are rough but conditions good (visibility, temperature and fish incidence). I know I would go out, so my boat would have to take this beating...

Maybe it's just me:t

 

[sickbugs]

what you guys call pangas, are very similar to what we call pirogues here in barbados (an probably a lot of the region) very solid boats, with extremely good seakeeping ability, even if they may look a bit cheap..

my dad had a 21 foot one back when i was a baby, with a yamaha 40hp, that did about 19 knots, im about to buy one (28 foot) that will probably do about 30 knots with twin 40's or 60's..

your comparison about them seeming to cost the same is a bit odd, one will end up being a heck of a lot cheaper to run (gas isnt cheap !!) than the other, and will do the same job, and i see people saying that the trophy might not be such a good buy?

for an idea of the pirogues im accustomed to, check out www.calypsomarine.com.

actually, contact them, you might get a good price from them and while they do pound in rough sea, you can actually use them to surf waves if your crazy like me, and my dad swears by them, he has NEVER been let down by his, anytime he went out, it brought him back in.. even if the wave was 10 foot on the reef, with a huge ocean swell..he spent many years diving from his, and fishing.

 

[Ted Budion]

the Trophy has a 150hp. I was just trying to show that the same sized panga with same engine, etc was the same price I'll be paying for the trophy.

Yes, it may cost the same, but it need not! 150 hp in a 22' panga it's an overkill. I dove a lot in Panama off a 26' panga powered by a 140hp and it ran very fast. The fact of the matter is that they're very different conceptions (and hull design)--you can't compare. As a rule of thumb (no science here, though) one normally needs 50% less power in a panga (pirogue) for the same cruise and top speed in relativelly calm seas.

And if you take the no frills panga (no innerliner), with a 90' e-tech or a 4-stroke, even better. A fuel miser if I ever have seen one. In theory, even a 70 hp would do, but you wouldn't have a reserve power.