Bodyboarding fins for freediving training?

[Simos]

Has anyone used rubber bodyboarding fins for freediving training (pool) before? In particular monofin training.

E.g. Bodyboard swim fins, swimfins at Bodyboard HQ bodyboarding shop and store UK, Stealth fins, viper, Churchill fins, manta blades

The foot pockets and asymmetric shape reminds me of a monofin, hence my question.

 

[Siku]

I was thinking of this - a 'split' monofin. It works best as a monofin, but you can stereo in a pinch!

 

[HansQz]

Hi,
Bodysurfing and bodyboarding fins are not at all comparable to freediving fins, so I wouldn't recommend them for freedive training.
In general, bodysurfing & bodyboarding fins are very short and provide very little thrust, the goal is to provide a quick start from a still position so you can catch a wave quickly. Also, they are made to be maneuverable as your body twists and bends with the wave. Most bodyboarding & bodysurfing fins have pronounced rails to help the rider track and steer while riding.

Bodyboarding fins (Churchills) are very soft so the rider can hop-up to one knee.

Bodysurfing fins (vipers, Da Fin) are stiffer and have a more pronounced rail to help the rider steer while bodysurfing. Vipers are extremely stiff, like boards, but they are meant for getting into heavy waves like The Wedge in Newport Beach.

Da Fin is a great all-around fin with a stiffer blade and soft, comfortable foot pocket. Da Fin has been used at places like Pipeline and steers well, and can also be used for swimming lap-training.

Because of the short blade, most bodysurfing & bodyboarding fins will actually make you increase your heart-rate while swimming, they are really meant to be pumped hard and fast in short spurts.

If you do want an all-around fin, take a look at the black rubber UDT duck-feet. Hard Malaysian rubber, comfortable foot-pockets, but they are like boards on your legs.

Hope that helps!

 

[Simos]

Thanks for the comprehensive answer - I looked up some of those fins on YouTube and they do look too stiff indeed. Churchills look more promising but unless someone comes forward and says they're great for pool training I think I won't risk wasting my money on a pair (although I am really curious to find out how they feel!)

 

[cdavis]

I use Churchhills and had a set of Da-fins, both used for body surfing and pool training, also use longfins in dolphin kick mode for ascending from deepish dives and for pool training. I'm still getting the hang of dolphin stroke.

I don't think body surfing fins will work well for mono training. As Hans said, the action of the fins is just too different. If you want to work on mono technique with bifins, try a pair of stiff plastic bifins. I use cressi 2000ld'sfor pool practice. Softer blades work, my normal blades are Specialfins mediums, but stiffer plastic seems to feel better.

Siku's "split monofin" idea is basicly how I dive, using dolphin sometimes and other kicks as appropriate. The flexibility is hard to beat for open water reef cruising where you don't know what you will run into.

Oh yeah, the Da-fin is wonderfully fast on acceleration. Beats my legs out too fast, but great for catching waves. Superior performance to the Churchhills.

Connor

 

[ReefTroll]

I know somebody who trains with them in the pool mate and he seems to like it. And he's a damned good diver.

 

[BennyB]

I'd have to respectfully disagree with the points HansQz has made. In a real freediving situation these comments are pretty much correct, however for training, small rubber fins are an excellent addition to your training kit - ironically for most of the reasons HansQz mentioned as being bad.

For monofin technique training small fins are excellent because they have very little propulsion and they almost force you to use good technique to get anywhere. Body undulations are more pronounced because you get very little power from using legs (though if you try a sprint, if you do it correctly you'll be surprised how quick you can go with little crappy fins).

I've not used bodyboarding fins for training before - I once pulled my old churchills out but they had deteriorated from 20 years of sitting in the shed :waterwork. I think they would be ok but probably a bit expensive to buy for the sole purpose of freedive training. Get yourself a pair of cheapy rubber pool fins - i've been using mine since 2004 and they're still good for $30.

If you want a quality pair of "little" training fins the russians do an excellent fin for monofin training (they've been pool training with little fins for years). Slightly more expensive than the cheap pool ones but they're good too. Ask around - there's a few people with the russian ones around London - at least there were a couple of years ago when I lived there.

So to summarise - in pool training - little rubber fins are good. In freediving down a rope or going for a pool PB, not so good.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Ben

 

[cdavis]

I'm going to get myself in trouble disagreeing with some very knowledgeable divers, but there is a considerable difference between something like a stiff fin with big rails, like a Viper or Da-fin, and a set of soft rubber pool fins. About the only similarity is all are short. Churchhills might make the transition ok, but I'll stick to my opinion for most body surfing fins.

There is another factor that may or may not be substantial, but will definitely make the fin act differently. Most body surfing/body boarding fins are very loose on the feet, lots of slop back and forth, very different from rubber pool fins. Not sure how this would affect use for mono training.
Connor

 

[Simos]

I'd have to respectfully disagree with the points HansQz has made. In a real freediving situation these comments are pretty much correct, however for training, small rubber fins are an excellent addition to your training kit - ironically for most of the reasons HansQz mentioned as being bad.

For monofin technique training small fins are excellent because they have very little propulsion and they almost force you to use good technique to get anywhere. Body undulations are more pronounced because you get very little power from using legs (though if you try a sprint, if you do it correctly you'll be surprised how quick you can go with little crappy fins).

I've not used bodyboarding fins for training before - I once pulled my old churchills out but they had deteriorated from 20 years of sitting in the shed :waterwork. I think they would be ok but probably a bit expensive to buy for the sole purpose of freedive training. Get yourself a pair of cheapy rubber pool fins - i've been using mine since 2004 and they're still good for $30.

If you want a quality pair of "little" training fins the russians do an excellent fin for monofin training (they've been pool training with little fins for years). Slightly more expensive than the cheap pool ones but they're good too. Ask around - there's a few people with the russian ones around London - at least there were a couple of years ago when I lived there.

So to summarise - in pool training - little rubber fins are good. In freediving down a rope or going for a pool PB, not so good.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Ben

Thanks Ben - been training with the rubber Dolphin Russian fins for the last couple of years. They are very good indeed - we just cut the 'heel' to make the fit/angle more like a mono fin. If bodyboarding fins are lose like Connor says, i think they won't be as good (maybe get a smaller size?)

I've also tried the plastic Cressi swimming fins a lot and recently the Kiefer her swimming fins - so far none compared to the Russian dolphins. Najade look REALLY good but they are so expensive for rubber fins - might be worth it though...

 

[hteas]

I've used everything from barefoot through Churchills and Duckfeet Costoms to Imersion Blacks and Picasso Black teams for pool training. They all work (just different muscles and different rhythms.)

 

[noa]

first and foremost i want to agree with pretty much everything Ben explained. as far as training goes, let it be known that finswimmers, including the elite, spend a very sustantial part of their training using short rubber (bodyboarding style) fins.
many reasons have been explained by Ben and there are a few more.
they are indeed exellent and very well suited to training. i have myself tried many of the brands out there and currently use DaFins and Hydro Tech2.
as HansQz very correctly explained, all these fins are originaly intended to be used for short burts of speed. however, by altering your kicking cadence and amplitude, they also work very well in other modes. keep in mind, i dolphin kick with any bifin i use. it just comes much more naturaly to me.
as far as actual diving goes, i personally love diving with my Dafins. they give me very good thrust when i want it, but being so small i can easily forget i have fins and go into no fins diving style for my upper body, while dolphin kicking my legs. super fun feeling !
if i'm not diving with a monofin, or completely no fins, i'm certainly on the Dafins.

 

[MartinTee]

What about actual training fins? I thought of using bodyboarding fins but remember them being too soft (the ones I used to own) and didn't think that they would come in different stiffnesses.

Here are some on ebay to look at:
Speedo Adult Smoke/Blue Quest Fins 41/42 | eBay
eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace
eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace
training fin | eBay

 

[Simos]

What about actual training fins? I thought of using bodyboarding fins but remember them being too soft (the ones I used to own) and didn't think that they would come in different stiffnesses.

Here are some on ebay to look at:
Speedo Adult Smoke/Blue Quest Fins 41/42 | eBay
eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace
eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace
training fin | eBay

Training fins are ok - I have used the Cressi ones for a couple of years and they are good, especially given how practical they are to carry around. I also used the Alpha and recently got a pair of Kiefer ones.

Although I am a fan of swim fins in general there is an important drawback - because of their size you end up having to modify the stroke to make them efficient. Having said this, the Cressi ones in particular give you a surprising amount of thrust for their size.

Longer rubber fins are one of the best ways to train, especially for monofin training. The Russian DolFins are excellent but mine started disintegrating after a few years hence this thread...

 

[bilgeh2o]

I think the UDT duckfeet are excellent. Huge amount of thrust. Very comfortable but do take some getting used to. Pretty comparable in pool performance to long fins. Much cheaper and probably tougher.

 

[DRW]

Thanks Ben - been training with the rubber Dolphin Russian fins for the last couple of years. They are very good indeed - we just cut the 'heel' to make the fit/angle more like a mono fin. If bodyboarding fins are lose like Connor says, i think they won't be as good (maybe get a smaller size?)

I agree that Russian Alphaplastic Del'fin [Дельфин] full-foot fins are extremely comfortable and great for endurance swimming. I use them regularly, with their heels and toes uncut, when I snorkel in the North Sea and I almost forget I'm wearing them:

They aren't the only fins produced by the Moscow company, the latest model is the Forel' [Форель, Trout] with its perforated blades:

alphaplastic.ru -

Najade look REALLY good but they are so expensive for rubber fins - might be worth it though...

I've just taken delivery of a pair of Najade Standards, whose largest size is 43-45. I was a little concerned that they wouldn't fit my size 45/46 feet, but it turned out I needn't have worried. They're very comfortable and have a wonderful vintage look; after all, they closely resemble the Naiade fins worn by skin divers, including the Nationale Volksarmee, in the German Democratic Republic. They come with a soft thin toecap, where the toe openings would normally be, so the toes don't get pinched.

NAJADE Standard fins
I'm looking forward to trying them out when I snorkel in the sea, as soon as the weather gets warmer, and seeing how they compare to other fins I have used.

 

[Simos]

Thanks DRW - would be great if you could post your experience with the Najade. Is there a reason you got the standard ones (uncut)? I guess if you are snorkeling it makes sense...

A slight concern I had with Najade is just purely by looking at them, it looks like (unlike the Delfins) the footpocket is made from the same rubber as the rest of the fin, which could make it a bit tough/uncomfortable.

 

[DRW]

Thanks DRW - would be great if you could post your experience with the Najade. Is there a reason you got the standard ones (uncut)? I guess if you are snorkeling it makes sense...

Yes, I wanted the uncut Standards because (a) I'm only interested in using them for snorkelling, which I've done for more than half a century with full-foot fins and (b) one of my hobbies is researching diving equipment history and the Hungarian-made Najade Standards closely resemble (perhaps the same moulds?) as East German Najades that have acquired something of a cult status among vintage divers in Germany, particularly among those with "Ostalgie"!

I promise to post my experiences when I try out the fins in the sea, which won't be for a couple of months.

A slight concern I had with Najade is just purely by looking at them, it looks like (unlike the Delfins) the footpocket is made from the same rubber as the rest of the fin, which could make it a bit tough/uncomfortable.

I understand your concern. I can confirm that the toe pockets are very soft, the top of the foot pockets are quite soft and the heels, though thicker and less soft, are reasonably flexible, certainly compared with the blades, which are pliable but reinforced with heavy ribs. I've tried wearing the fins over bare feet for a few hours and while they are comfortable, the edges do press into the flesh if my feet twist in the shoe. I will likely wear the fins over thin socks to make sure I have no red areas on my feet after using them. Only the very thin toe pockets compare well in softness with the material used in Del'fin foot pockets.