bottom times / static times

[The111]

Two questions that are somewhat related:

1) The recent post about Pipin's new attempt sparked this thought. Most no limits dives I have read about last around 3:00. If these people can do 6:00+ statics (I'm assuming), why are their no limit dives considerably shorter? You're not exerting any muscle energy, right? I'm guessing it has something to do with the amazingly high pressures they must encounter.

2) I've often wondered about the ratio of dive time to static time. Obviously it depends on how hard you exert yourself during the dive. I can dive 1:20 or so exerting myself a lot, and I can static 4:00. Most record dives (and dynamics) I read about are in the 2:00-3:00 range. I was assuming for a long time that it was pretty much impossible to do a dive (a reasonably deep, reasonably exerting one at least) for too much longer than 3 minutes. But I recently talked with someone on here via PM who told me how he watched someone dive in the open sea for 4:50 (a deep dive too, I think) on their second dive of the day! Comparing that to my own "static/dive ratio", if I was able to dive for 4:50, I would be able to, hypothetically, do a 10:00+ static! So question #2, are there really a lot of people out there who can do 5:00 dives?! I've been thinking I will be happy if I ever reach the 3:00 mark, which does not seem too near...

 

[bluecape]

Interesting Post ! I'm not even going to guess the ratio of static to dive time, my static and dive time is very similar to yours, sometimes on aspetto I push up to 1:45 to 2:00 if I've got a trustworthy buddy watching over me.

Often at home in the evenings I will do a dry static with no real build up, and go quite comfortably to 2 :30 to 3 :00 mins.
My average bottom time spearfishing is probably about 1 min 15, I find no need to stay down longer unless I'm close to a shot.
I met a top SA spearo last weekend, whom I figured would have bottom times considerably longer, but he too, told me he averages about 1:20. Not because of anything other than there was no need, which was good to hear !

Lastly, I have met many 'hotshots' who claim bottom times of absurd lengths, but they only ever dive solo, and no-one seems to have seen these 4:30 hunting dives?? Wonder why ??

 

[The111]

What is aspetto?

 

[bluecape]

Aspetto is a spearfishing term, which literally translated from Italian means "To wait". IE, instead of diving and moving slowly looking for fish, in aspetto you dive to your position, and lie absolutely still. Certain fish, like the Musscle Cracker or Brusher, will only get within your range with this form of 'ambush' hunting.

 

[bluecape]

Hi Jeff

I think you have hit the point exactly, when you talk about days that everything feels right. Inspite of the lack of 'apparent' physical effort in freediving ( Spearfishing in my case), where the idea is to actually be as relaxed as possible, I have discovered that freediving asks far more of my body than running, rockclimbing, or any other physical sport. That is the very nature of Apnea I believe, diving on a single breath may not feel it..but it is working our physiology like crazy...and as you noticed, every now and then we get days that just feel great.

Long distance runners also experience these. It could be related to diet, amount of sleep, your mood, weather, or all of the above. I think it is our bio-rythyms, which peak at a certain time. Next time you experience a dive like that, pay attention to all details of that day...you will probably find that you are on top of eveything !


Regards

Jeff

 

[The111]

Re: low ratio... diving reflex?

Originally posted by jeff.richardson
This year there have been several days where my 3rd or 4th warm-up dive goes over 3 minutes, maybe 3:15 or so.

I must not even have a diving reflex, because my first dive of the day is usually 80-90% as long/deep as my best dive of the day...

 

[BlueIcarus]

My data:
4 min 30 '' static
1 min 23 secs max botton time.

Last year, in my first ever dives, I could also reach this botton time... but suffering a lot (lots of contractions, etc). This year I've realized this is not the point. If you are comfortable, your botton time will expand. Now all my dives are pleasurable. I don't suffer anymore

My experience is this: If I go for time at the first dives, I f*ck up the whole session. My body is controlling the times rather than my mind, so no use in going for 1 minute dives at the beginning.... my body doesn't let me do this, and if I try, my diving reflex won't come. Diving day is over if I do this
Otherwise, If I start dives listening to my body and coming up at the first contraction or even before (with first dives are as ridiculous as 30 secs) my times increase automagically without perceived effort. So I think if you override your diving reflex, it won't come out.
I've noticed this also at dynamic training. Let's say your max is X. For me there's a distance (like X-some few meters) that If I try, my dynamics will decrease instead of increasing. So what I do is find comfortable distance, and gradually increase until you feel that distance is detrimental for your training (i.e: If you repeat it another time, you'll suffer more). Then go below this critical distance in training.

Don't know If there's physiological facts about this, but It's just what happens to me

Cheers!

PS: When the hell is there going to be scientific facts about this things? I don't see the day

 

[DeepThought]

I have personally seen Bevan Dewar and Erez Beatus doing over 4 minute dives, though not in a very repetitive manner.

While checking Bevan's mosquito I saw the longest dive time being 4:55, I don't know in what dicipline it was.

Erez told me has also 5+ minute dives, and I believe him.
I think Trevor Hutton had those as well since he is the one who told me that one of the mosquito's deficits is that when you take it down for longer than 5 mins it'll automatically tranfer to scuba mode and then you'll get ascent alarm and 48 hour lock.

As to me, I can do 4min statics on demand (PB is 5:34, but 2 years old), and dive times on a good day are about 2 mins. Longest I have in my 2 months old mosquito is about 2:20, and it was still very comfertable. I think that if I'll wanna make a PB long dive, it could be 3:00 @ 20ish, but I'm not sure I would enjoy it as hours of repetitive 2 minute dives to the same depth.

It has alot to do with warm-up and good conditions.
Having something to look at always makes my dives longer. Also diving day after day.
Starting the session slow (first dives with very slow descent/ascent) or preferably free imerssion also helps me to kick in.
Some people get better results doing the opposite, getting lots of contractions in the first dives and such.
I guess you just have to experiment with that.

 

[DeepThought]

Regarding No-limits, that is a good question. And I was hopping that maybe someone who actually knows this dicipline will post, but till then I'll give my guesses.

I think that the depth limits is mostly by pressure and not time.

But considering O2, I think that at such depths, the O2 concentration is so big that it reacts with your body much faster and therefore you burn more O2. Though I have no scientific knowledge about that (YET), but this is my notion. I would also guess that such dives create ALOT of free radicals because of that.

I think that for deep no-limits most athletes also hyperventilate so they will have high pulse before going down (opposite of what you would think needed) because the pulse decrease at such depths (down to 8bpm or so) might get them to cardiac arrest if they hadn't done that. This decrease is due to strong pulmonary errection and inorder to have such a fast pulmonary errection (you're going down at 2m/s~) you also need high pulse to keep pumping blood to the lung vessels.

You also have to grab the sled to hold on at a speed of 2m/s which is quite fast AND control the speed with some break.

You also need to equalize constantly and maybe even use wet equalization.

In Pipin's book excerpt he also mention Audrey does mind drills to fight the narcosis, now I would defenitly consider it a bother, and therefore an O2 dump.

I guess all those cost O2 more than your regular static.

 

[The111]

Originally posted by DeepThought
Longest I have in my 2 months old mosquito is about 2:20, and it was still very comfertable. I think that if I'll wanna make a PB long dive, it could be 3:00 @ 20ish

20ish = 20m? Or 20ft?

Thx for the input...

 

[DeepThought]

Meters, I don't dive in feet. .