Bottom Times

[Jager_SA]

I was wondering wat you guys on DB reckon is a decent bottom time, Im currently doin dives in my pool (as the weather in dbn is making the sea so dirty), and Im getting up to 2:45 to 3min before I really feel I need to surface QUICKLY, this isnt a static dive though. My pool is about 2 and half m deep and Ive dumped a nice rock into it. So i dive down and hold onto the rock after swimming from the other side of the pool (to simulate like a 4 to 5m dive). Then i swim back along to the other wall before coming up. Is this a good/bad idea? I just cant seem to break through 3 min, and i find my dive times move from about 1:45 to 2, to 2:30, then to 3. Is this normal? I thought ones breath holding capacity would decrease, instead of increase over dives? I am currently doing a dive then breathing up for 1min25 before diving again.

Your comments and advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks alot
Stefan

 

[trux]

That sounds like a quite good way to kill yourself and get onto the Darwin Award list. If you train static apnea, do it on surface and under permanent and direct supervision of someone who is experienced with hadnling LMC (samba) and blackouts.

You may find useful looking at the following thread, but that's only one of many "freedivers" who died in this way:
http://forums.deeperblue.net/safety/68814-bad-news-sweden.html?highlight=sweden+accident

 

[miles]

Hiya

I can only echo Trux's sentiments!! NEVER TRAIN ALONE!!!!

Rather join one of the spearfishing club's in Durbs and get yourself a partner to train with.

Most spearo's here have a 1:00 to 1:30 total dive time. That is from the time they leave the surface, to the time the return. Very few spearo's are able to break the 2:00minutes barrier.

I HIGHLY recommend that you read this thread: http://forums.deeperblue.net/beginner-freediving/64959-how-start-freediving.html LOADS of VERY, VERY GOOD information!!

Regards
miles

 

[spaghetti]

Jager listen to Miles and Trux: a spearo dive never exceeds 1'00 or 1'30", and more than this you should never stretch your breath hold ability to the limit while you're spearfishing. Always leave an "emergency" portion of air left.
--
Take this scenario as an example: it's the end of the dive, you try to surface but that's when you realize that your feet are tangled or stuck. If you have no oxygen left, it will be too late to work it out, and you die.

 

[greendiver]

Jager!! take care, I dont know much about spearos in South Africa, but over here...in the little village I live, 5 have left us...(in the last 10 years)

 

[sickbugs]

careful with the long dives, sounds like your training for an aspetto, you will find that while hunting, its hard to have such a long aspetto. if you ARE doing long extremely long aspettos, try to spend about 3x your dive time on the surface...


sounds like u will probably eventually black out doing what your doing... would it be worth it?

 

[Metridium]

Hello Stefan,

The posters above are correct about the need for experienced direct supervision if you are going to train in the water the way you described. Otherwise there is nothing 'bad' with your procedure. However, you could accomplish almost the same training by using dry methods like apnea walking/pushups or dry statics.

Doing safe forms of training to develop a longer breath hold time is excellent practice IF you reserve the additional capacity you gain as a safety buffer when spearing. One day you will need it. I have had to rely on my extra capacity twice in 7 years of freediving to get myself out of kelp entanglements.

A decent bottom time for most spearfishers is 1 to 1:30 minutes. I find this to be enough time to spear every species of fish in my area, down to 15 to 20meters. But not every wiley fish - some you just got to let go and try again.

It is normal for dive times to increase with repeated breathholds. They will need to be decreased again when you become physically exhausted, are excited from shooting a big fish, if you eat, become chilled, or otherwise stressed. Recognizing when you need to return to shorter times and shallower depths is one of the physical/safety skills to be learned. When tired or cold I cut my bottom times to 45 seconds or quit.

When training by safe methods it is fine to have short recovery intervals; it is actually a training technique to adapt your tolerance. But when spearing or freediving to depth, be sure that surface intervals are at least twice longer than your bottom times, even if you don't 'feel' like you need the time. I often 'feel' recovered at only half of my bottom time. But I do my full surface time.

Keep reading, asking questions, use your buddies, and have fun training and spearing!

David

 

[deep thinker]

The reason for dive times increasing, to my understanding, is that your 'dive reflex' kicks in. This is when your body reacts to the increased times of operating with limited oxygen and starts to use the oxygen available to keep vital organs going, like the brain and heart another reason why your heart rate slows down other than the relaxed mode we use when diving, areas that gets less O2 will be 'less vital' organs like the spleen ect. Interesting point they found that the japanese ama divers has a spleen 20% smaller than other people of the same age and body type, this is because the increased time they spend underwater and hence increased times of less supply to the specific organ...
Note, I mite be wrong here so please bring me back to reality if that is infact the case...

 

[vjanda]

Whatever you do take care.
I push myself to 80% but never more.
Most of the people lost to the sea are some of the best divers around.
Once you loose all fear of the depth is when the trouble starts.

Stay safe

 

[Lehmann108]

Dude, like trux and others have said, don't train alone!!! SWB can strike you out of the blue and you'll be dead as a doormat before you know it!:naughty

 

[GreekDiver]

your body will tell you when you need to come up. I average between 1:20 to 1:45 around 60 ft. I never knew how long i stayed down till i got my d3. I love it. :inlove Make sure when you are resting and breathing on the surface you arent moving at all. Not any part of your body. Your recovery is much quicker this way. Like someone said, twice your bottom time is enough time. Im guilty of going down much sooner than i should but i mainly do that when its around 45 ft or less.

I never eat in the morning. If i do, i cant hold my breath as long. I try to have pasta the night before and just drink lots of gatorade in the morning and afternoon. I only eat when i stop diving for the day.

 

[vjanda]

I only dive in 10-15 m depths.

A couple of questions :
1) Can SWB happen when surfacing from such depths? I mean the lungs should not expand much hence no SWB right?

2) Does someone about to get SWB go through contractions, ie they knew they pushed themselves quite far ?

Thanks

 

[GreekDiver]

I only dive in 10-15 m depths.

A couple of questions :
1) Can SWB happen when surfacing from such depths? I mean the lungs should not expand much hence no SWB right?

2) Does someone about to get SWB go through contractions, ie they knew they pushed themselves quite far ?

Thanks

i think people have gotten it in pretty much all circumstances.

 

[azapa]

its an interesting point initially raised, and one that has gone through my head and practice a lot:

How does pool performance compare to ocean performance? Cold, murky water, adrenalin, fright etc must play a big role, depths are also greater. Time perception is different too I feel.

I can do a 50M DNF (in a crappy 10 long pool, lots of turns, with terrible style and no glide..) in about 1:30, but I am sure I can never dive more than 45 secs in the ocean. I have no timer to verify, but will do soon.

What are your estimated ratios of pool dynamic vs ocean dynamic?

cheeers

 

[JPPLAY]

I only dive in 10-15 m depths.

A couple of questions :
1) Can SWB happen when surfacing from such depths? I mean the lungs should not expand much hence no SWB right?

2) Does someone about to get SWB go through contractions, ie they knew they pushed themselves quite far ?

Thanks

1) The most pressure change in any dive is the first 33 feet. You can easily get SWB blackout in those depths. Don't think you are safe from SWB because you aren't diving to much depth.

2) There may be no warning signs like contractions. You have to learn to listen to your body. The signs can change day to day. Some days I can dive 1:45 others I am only doing 1:15. The amount and intensity of contractions can change day to day. Contractions aren't a good indicator of how much time you have left in my opinion.

 

[cdavis]

Perfect recipes for a shallow SWB:

1.Its 4 meters deep, the fish are thick and you are EXCITED! Shoot'em, throw'em in the float bucket, breath up as fast as you can, way too fast, back down and shoot again. Repeat 10 times as fast as you can go. The fish are getting spooky and you're having to stay down longer, but its wild and wonderful. Contractions? Who knows or cares. Then, on the way up, its tunnel vision and stars. If you are lucky, you breathe before the BO and survive to tell the tale. I was lucky.

2. Its aspetto time, right under your friends boat dock, only 3 meters deep. Your reflex has kicked in great, long bottom times. On this dive there is a huge _______ (you fill in the kind of fish), just outside gun range, flirting with you. Just a few more seconds and he is yours. Contractions, warning signs? yeah, well maybe, but the fish is so close and the surface is right there. SHOOT, poor shot, you chase him, run him down, finallly get control and go for the surface. Opps, too late, BO on the surface and drown. Friend finds body and freaks.

Yes, SWB can definately happen in shallow water.